Great recordings = OOP = ridiculous prices

[71 dB]

Often when I come to GMG to see recommendations for great recordings this happens: I go shopping for the recommended discs online only to find out they are more or less OOP and the prices are suitable for lottery winners and billionaires. So, most of the time the recommendations of GMG members are useless to me, because I am not a lottery winner.

An idea for record companies: When you realise you have a winner disc released, take more copies of it because it will sell a lot! Don't wait for 20 years before you re-release it because by that time there will be another, even better war horse to compete your disc. Re-release it next year or so.

[Parsifal]

It does seem that classical labels are often shooting themselves in the foot, but unless we see the sales sheets we don't know. Maybe that astronomical price for the one used copy gives a false impression of the value, and a new pressing would sell 10 only copies before the demand was satisfied, with the rest of the run destined for the grinder.

One of my pet Peeves was the set of Faure Piano music recorded by Doyen for Erato. Issued once on CD, every few years I check to see if there is a reasonable used copy available, usually the price is forbiddingly high (for me). Another, the Rubsam set of Bach organ works on Philips. (Maybe it's time to search for that again.) My brother had a copy and I ripped it, but it's not the same. One happy ending was Claudio Arrau. For a while I desperately wanted a copy of the "United Archives" set of his early Columbia recordings (late 40's mostly). Then, miraculously, a rather inexpensive boxed set of the material was released.

[71 dB]

Maybe that astronomical price for the one used copy gives a false impression of the value, and a new pressing would sell 10 only copies before the demand was satisfied, with the rest of the run destined for the grinder.

Bach: The Musical Offering BWV 1079 /Ensemble Sonnerie

Amazon.co.uk marketplace has 3 sellers:

£23.95 used
£50.17 new
£53.95 new

Well, £23.95 isn't "astronomical", but used CDs should not be over £15 imo. £50 is ridiculous even for a new disc.

[Todd]

Bach: The Musical Offering BWV 1079 /Ensemble Sonnerie

Amazon.co.uk marketplace has 3 sellers:

£23.95 used
£50.17 new
£53.95 new

Well, £23.95 isn't "astronomical", but used CDs should not be over £15 imo. £50 is ridiculous even for a new disc.

Amazon US has it for $12 used and $17 new, as well as $17 for an ArkivCD.  Not sure about shipping, but the prices seem reasonable to me.

[Jo498]

The non-availability of some Arrau recordings (mainly the Brahms and Schumann solo) that used to be catalogue staples in the LP era and probably until the mid-90ties also on CD is puzzling. Although I had just started listening to classical music seriously in the late 1980s, I remember well when the old Arrau was (like Serkin and Horowitz) considered among the most important pianists still alive and many of his recordings were standard recommendations. Probably the demise of Philips as a label or Universal's focus on Brendel is the reason although Brendel would not be much competition in solo Schumann and Brahms because he recorded not much of that music.

I can mainly think of one oop recording I bought for a comparably high price (roughly full price for a used disc, around 16-17 EUR) after having it on my watch list for years and it was usually >20 EUR (or a burned "Archiv" CD-Rom), Hagen Qt. playing D 887 and LvB op.95. This is a fantastic disc, so it was worth it but OTOH there are plenty of good recordings of these pieces so my life would have been not so much worse if I had not got it.

[71 dB]

Amazon US has it for $12 used and $17 new, as well as $17 for an ArkivCD.  Not sure about shipping, but the prices seem reasonable to me.

Amazon.com marketplace shipping is ridiculous $14.95 to Finland. I can't buy ANYTHING from there anymore because of that. Even the "old" $6.89 was bad enough.

[Todd]

Amazon.com marketplace shipping is ridiculous $14.95 to Finland. I can't buy ANYTHING from there anymore because of that. Even the "old" $6.89 was bad enough.

It would be $32 for a new set.  That's not quite full price for two discs.  Again, that's reasonable.  Large font doesn't change that.

[71 dB]

It would be $32 for a new set.  That's not quite full price for two discs.  Again, that's reasonable.  Large font doesn't change that.

Two discs? What are you talking about. $32 is not reasonable for a single disc, at least I am not paying such prices.

[Todd]

Two discs? What are you talking about. $32 is not reasonable for a single disc, at least I am not paying such prices.

My bad, I thought it was a twofer.  $32 is a bit high for a single, though it could be had for $27 used, or whatever the Amazon UK price plus shipping is.  I've paid that much for single discs on multiple occasions (and $30, for that matter).  If it truly is a "great" recording, what difference does a few dollars/euro make? 

[71 dB]

My bad, I thought it was a twofer.  $32 is a bit high for a single, though it could be had for $27 used, or whatever the Amazon UK price plus shipping is.  I've paid that much for single discs on multiple occasions (and $30, for that matter).  If it truly is a "great" recording, what difference does a few dollars/euro make?

If it was a twofer, it would be less than 72 minutes of music divided on two discs. I rarely pay more than 10 euros for single discs. 15 euros is crazy and 20 euros is madness. I can buy something else, something cheaper. That's the difference. BWV 1079 is not the only composition in the World and maybe I don't even like this recording?

[Todd]

I rarely pay more than 10 euros for single discs. 15 euros is crazy and 20 euros is madness.

This thinking is one reason the recording business is doing relatively poorly. 

[71 dB]

This thinking is one reason the recording business is doing relatively poorly.

Even if I paid $100 the money wouldn't go to the recording business. It would go to the seller. The damn disc is OOP. Only if they re-release it have they a change to get money from me. I should have bought it almost 20 years ago, but I wasn't smart enough. I didn't know what I know today.

I do pay full prices for many discs of Tangerine Dream and buy from Eastgate ( 53,90 € order was the latest) so the artists have got my money directly. I also paid full price for Jarre's Oxygene Trilogy recently.

[Mirror Image]

I'm sorry but this whole thread is just one major eyeroll. Why on earth does it bother that prices for rare, out-of-print are expensive? The solution to your problem is quite simple: don't buy the recordings! So there you have it, you're welcome.

[Parsifal]

Amazon.com marketplace shipping is ridiculous $14.95 to Finland. I can't buy ANYTHING from there anymore because of that. Even the "old" $6.89 was bad enough.

I went to the post office to send a package to Finland. The rates are very high, higher than to other countries which are a comparable distance away (such as other European counties). The recipient got hauled in to the customs office and had to pay duty on some used clothes that evidently didn't look used enough. I suspect it is the Finnish postal/customs system that is responsible for the high rates.

Even if I paid $100 the money wouldn't go to the recording business. It would go to the seller. The damn disc is OOP. Only if they re-release it have they a change to get money from me. I should have bought it almost 20 years ago, but I wasn't smart enough. I didn't know what I know today.

I do pay full prices for many discs of Tangerine Dream and buy from Eastgate ( 53,90 € order was the latest) so the artists have got my money directly. I also paid full price for Jarre's Oxygene Trilogy recently.

Here your gripe is with the free market. Why wouldn't a person who had in his or her possession a disc that other people covet ask a higher price for it? I suspect the reason for the quirky pricing often seen in the used classical CD market is just that the market is so small, both on the supply and on the demand side. Small fluctuations in the quantity available cause big price spikes. Someone realizes he or she has the only copy listed on Amazon and decides to set a high price in case some fanatic springs for it. Even if used copies are going for astonomical prices, it might not make sense for the manufacture to do another pressing run. Maybe they let it go out of print because no one had ordered a new copy in 3 years and they had to send their remaining stock to the grinder to free space in the warehouse. The offer price doesn't signify real value unless someone actually buys it.

My advice is just to wait and patrol. I remember a year or two ago I was anxious to collect all of Herreweghe's OOP Bach Cantata recordings released by Harmonia Mundi. Most of the volumes were reasonable, less than or comparable to the original price. One volume was hard to find and very pricey, two or three times the original price. I gritted my teeth and bought it anyway because I was worried about ever finding another copy at all. A few months later I happened to stumble on the amazon listing for it, selling for 10% of what I paid. Oh well...

[71 dB]

I'm sorry but this whole thread is just one major eyeroll. Why on earth does it bother that prices for rare, out-of-print are expensive? The solution to your problem is quite simple: don't buy the recordings! So there you have it, you're welcome.

Yes, not buying the recordings is a simple and easy solution, but it means 2 things:

(1) The divine wisdom of GMG regarding great recordings is often rendered useless for me.
(2) I have to feel myself inferior compared to others with my crappy cheap Naxos discs (even when I enjoy them).

If those great recordings were cheap and easy to get, these 2 problem could be solved, but it is too much to ask.

[Jo498]

While I share some of the anger about unavailable (or overpriced) recordings, it can hardly be denied that the used market (like ebay, amazon marketplace or directly buying from used dealers) overall is a buyer's market and one can get a lot of great recordings for a fraction of the original/new price and they are usually in very good condition.

And I do not think that the biased and fallible hive mind wisdom of GMG usually favors expensive oop recommendations. At least this has not been my experience. Whereas I have encountered a few users at another forum where 90% of some particular users recommendations seem to consist in fairly obscure, either completely unavailable or utterly overpriced recordings. It is sometimes hard to forego the conclusion that these are mainly given for earning the distinction of being familiar with those obscure discs at all...
GMG is not like that.

[mc ukrneal]

I must admit, when I post something, I usually have not looked at its current price...

[Que]

I agree with Jo. I don't see a prevalence of recommendations fir OOP items on GMG.
Indeed, I try to avoid making specific reccommendations of OOP items.
I do post what I listen to, however....indiscriminate of availability.

Some members are very dedicated and creative in tracking down out of print items. I'm not doing badly myself, if may say so...
Like for them, the knowledge that there is a particular recording out there that might interest me is still of value to me. Even if it is OOP.
All this goes onto a mental list in the back of my head for that later moment that I come accross it, sometimes as an incredible bargain or a surprise reissue.
It could be years before that happens, sometimes just a few weeks. At least I know what to look for - made some amazing musical discoveries like that! 

Q

[71 dB]

I went to the post office to send a package to Finland. The rates are very high, higher than to other countries which are a comparable distance away (such as other European counties). The recipient got hauled in to the customs office and had to pay duty on some used clothes that evidently didn't look used enough. I suspect it is the Finnish postal/customs system that is responsible for the high rates.

Yes, the Finnish postal system sucks. Idiots are in charge at the moment. Ten years ago things were a lot better.

Here your gripe is with the free market. Why wouldn't a person who had in his or her possession a disc that other people covet ask a higher price for it? I suspect the reason for the quirky pricing often seen in the used classical CD market is just that the market is so small, both on the supply and on the demand side. Small fluctuations in the quantity available cause big price spikes. Someone realizes he or she has the only copy listed on Amazon and decides to set a high price in case some fanatic springs for it. Even if used copies are going for astonomical prices, it might not make sense for the manufacture to do another pressing run. Maybe they let it go out of print because no one had ordered a new copy in 3 years and they had to send their remaining stock to the grinder to free space in the warehouse. The offer price doesn't signify real value unless someone actually buys it.

All I ask is you don't blame me for listening to Naxos discs. It's because I haven't won in lottery. So, please don't ruin the Naxos experience for me. I just paid 15 € for a Mirare disc so I am trying! What is the point of recommending OOP discs? Recommend something that is available!

My advice is just to wait and patrol. I remember a year or two ago I was anxious to collect all of Herreweghe's OOP Bach Cantata recordings released by Harmonia Mundi. Most of the volumes were reasonable, less than or comparable to the original price. One volume was hard to find and very pricey, two or three times the original price. I gritted my teeth and bought it anyway because I was worried about ever finding another copy at all. A few months later I happened to stumble on the amazon listing for it, selling for 10% of what I paid. Oh well...

Yes. I'll wait.

[71 dB]

There is a website, "camelcamelcamel" which will do it for you.  You find the item you want to watch on Amazon and set your price, and ccc will send you an email when it shows up.

Thanks for this hint! I made myself an account!