Amy Winehouse RIP

[eyeresist]

I don't think your opinion is anything more than a kneejerk reaction. It certainly doesn't bear up in the comparison you make with Billie Holiday, who had a tiny voice and a range of about an octave. The "rhythmic and harmonic complexity" you attribute to Billie are hardly relevant when the songs for which she is remembered are slow drony numbers like Strange Fruit, Gloomy Sunday and The Man I Love. Ella Fitzgerald is about 20 times the singer Billie was in that area - not that complexity has anything at all to do with artistic merit.

But don't worry, in 50 years Winehouse will be old and respectable enough that you can use her as a stick to bash the new hack purveyor of mediocre tripe, without any proof required beyond blunt assertion. In the meantime, you could work on acquiring some of that old time gracious manner which we so sorely lack these days.

[Josquin des Prez]

I don't think your opinion is anything more than a kneejerk reaction. It certainly doesn't bear up in the comparison you make with Billie Holiday, who had a tiny voice and a range of about an octave. The "rhythmic and harmonic complexity" you attribute to Billie are hardly relevant when the songs for which she is remembered are slow drony numbers like Strange Fruit, Gloomy Sunday and The Man I Love. Ella Fitzgerald is about 20 times the singer Billie was in that area - not that complexity has anything at all to do with artistic merit.

Please, you have no idea what you are talking about. Holiday was the vocal counterpart to Lester Young. If you know anything about Jazz, you'll know what that means. Its no surprise they worked so well together, they had a real harmonic and rhythm synergy, and considering how complex of a player Lester Young was you can understand how remarkable that was for a Jazz singer (and yes, complexity DOES matter). Ella Fitzgerald may have had a more powerful voice but she was in no way a greater singer. She was in fact rather pedestrian at times.

Never seen the day i would have to defend real artists against some trashy pop phenomenon. Only in this forum.

[Josquin des Prez]

Case in point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzJMTSaAl8g&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySszeu4H4QI&feature=related

Of course, this isn't Fitzgerald at her best, but it illustrates what i mean. There is a rhythmic intensity, a density of harmonic implications in Holiday singing which match Young's soling perfectly. By comparison, Fitzgerald's rendition is superficial and almost gratuitous at times.

[knight66]

This is just your usual game; denigrate one, (or two), artists to raise another up...same old same old.

Mike

[eyeresist]

I may have overstated my case to compensate for Josquin's aggressive idiocy. I don't know how Winehouse will be perceived by history, but think it likely that the song 'Back to Black' will become a standard. That in itself is a pretty decent legacy.

[The new erato]

I may have overstated my case to compensate for Josquin's aggressive idiocy.

Yes, who wouldn't (I certainly would despite agreeing with him on Billie Holliday). Amy was a very talented youth who deserved better, even though her undoing was pretty much of her own making. Very sad anyway.

[eyeresist]

Rhythmic intensity / harmonic complexity??!!? Compared to what Raffi? The Sesame Street theme song?

You're a total musical ignoramus .. Holiday's range was limited, as most of those old "jazz" singers (yawn) were.

Are you going to let him talk to you like that, man?

[The new erato]

Holiday's range was limited, as most of those old "jazz" singers (yawn) were.

It's not about range man, but what you do with what you've got. If you don't realize that, you have no idea of the range (!) of emotions music can convey.

[jowcol]

You're a total musical ignoramus .. Holiday's range was limited, as most of those old "jazz" singers (yawn) were.

Speaking of limited range....  one could also look at some of the analyses that has been presented in these pages, that are not only limited to an octave, but often to a single note.

[Turner]

Bump. A long time has passed since the breaking news.

In 2015, a good documentary came, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_(2015_film),
and it included some live recordings that once again prove her unquestionable talent as a singer and an artist.

Also - and luckily - the documentary broadens out the perspective, from that far too simplistic focus on Winehouse´s "weird loser"-image, which was even occasionally reproduced in this thread.