Alban Berg (1885-1935)

[springrite]

Not that the HvK recording is at all bad, but I have to give Abbado the nod on the Op.6 pieces.

You are too polite, Karl. It's been a month and a half since the campaign season was over and you still have some leftover effects of listening to too much politician talk.

The Abbado is amazing.

[Karl Henning]

Bring that hammer down, Paul!  Must be Kimi keeping you in fighting trim . . . .

[Mirror Image]

Haven't heard HvK yet, but Abbado is very good. Karl, have you heard Levine/Met Orchestra's Berg disc on Sony? Wozzeck fragments with Fleming, Lulu Suite and Op.6 pieces. Still probably my favorite Berg orchestral disc.

That's a great disc.

[Mirror Image]

Not that the HvK recording is at all bad, but I have to give Abbado the nod on the Op.6 pieces.

Abbado's Berg is simply outstanding, Karl. Love those performances.

[springrite]

Bring that hammer down, Paul!  Must be Kimi keeping you in fighting trim . . . .

Once I had a HvK Haydn disc on and Kimi said "Daddy this is dreadful!" But when I changed to Fey's recording of Haydn she approved.

Kimi holds no punches!

[Karl Henning]

She knows when HvK wants some slapping around!

[Mirror Image]

Once I had a HvK Haydn disc on and Kimi said "Daddy this is dreadful!" But when I changed to Fey's recording of Haydn she approved.

Kimi holds no punches!

Kimi knows good Haydn when she hears it!

[Lisztianwagner]

I think Karajan's Berg is terrific, hauntingly thrilling; but the Abbado stands comparison superbly.

[Mirror Image]

I think Karajan's Berg is terrific, hauntingly thrilling; but the Abbado stands comparison superbly.

For me, there is no comparison. Abbado clearly has Berg's idiom under his fingers while Karajan's performances seem unclear as to where he wants the music to go. Now, late-Romantic Schoenberg works, this is where Karajan shines IMHO.

Karl, as Greg suggested, you should definitely check out the Levine recording on Sony (w/ the MET Orchestra) of various Berg orchestral works. Three Pieces for Orchestra and Lulu-Suite are handled beautifully. The Wozzeck fragments are also great.

[TheGSMoeller]

I've yet to purchase Faust's VC recording, no real reason why not, and after seeing this I'm wondering why I haven't.
Check out this small morsel of goodness...

http://www.youtube.com/v/QJJ8JfvAEKY&list=UUtRkmSO4PrhJ4TzNOmFIwjw&index=27

[Leo K.]

In the late concert aria Der Wein Otter and Abbado sound fresh and spirited, and they are very much able to capture the jazz inluences and lilt, and even if this is hardly my favorite Berg work I found the version here to be very appealing. The highlight of this disc, however (with apologies to von Otter who sings marvelously everywhere else) is Abbado's superb shaping and the Vienna Philharmonic's astounding, powerful and expressive playing of the Three Orchestral Pieces. This is many-layered, complex music of soul-searching profundity and smoldering fires; the March, for instance, displays a certain attack and rhythmic sharpness in this recording, but becomes more of a dark tone poem, chillingly depicting the staring Berg's Seven Early Songs paint with subdued colors and wisps of shadow from the twilight of Romanticism. Anne Sofie von Otter turns out to be - not surprisingly - pretty close to an ideal interpreter. As a lieder singer (rather than a dramatic voice) she finds the details and surprising shades of color and conveys a deep understanding of the texts, and Abbado is an admirable partner, careful to support the singer and the text rather than drawing attention to the sheen and lushness of the orchestra or to overwhelm the songs with orchestral opulence (as sometimes happens in these works). Tender, glittering poetry and a multitude of subtle colors rather than any kind of Wagnerian drama are what we get, and I cannot think of any better way of enjoying these imaginative, alluring works.

[Leo K.]

(sadly out of print, but I have thoughts on it)

The Berg performances are nothing less than a miracle of conducting and orchestral culture--a sign of times gone by: a performance of manic, autocratic vision and ensemble that dares to step to the very edge of togetherness and then step a bit further. We, as hostages to our own infantile, cosmetic, MBA-driven times, will never hear the likes of it again. We don't deserve to. "How much you lack vision", the performance seems to say, "but then let me teach you." Released on LP back in 1974. Rumor has it the company demurred, so Karajan waived his fee just to make the thing happen. (The only pity is that the Schoenberg Pieces, Op. 15 weren't included.) The box then went on to sell far beyond anyone's expectations. Listen to Karajan's Verklarte Nacht, and you'll hear a sorcerer's long-line thinking and sense of preparation--or at least the thinking of someone who spent many a night in the opera pit, tending to drama and taking care that the climax in Act II did not pre-empt the Liebestod. After Verklarte Nacht I would point to Karajan's Pelleas und Melisande, Berg 3 Pieces, and Webern 6 Pieces as recorded performances that have never been matched. Abbado's recent Vienna discs of the Berg works (released by DG in Europe but not here) are more transparent and maybe more emotionally forthcoming. And Boulez's second reading of Op. 6 shouldn't be forgotten. But surely it's Karajan who stages the more cogent drama in Berg's Op. 6, willing the opening percussion crescendo, this Second Viennese set was something of a market risk even when DG released it on conductor, though not necessarily in the repertoire he recorded most frequently. But what phrygian gates opened up when Karajan trusted his players like this, not getting in their way and guiding them with a beat that could knowingly cloud over at moments, that threatened to be too secure! Even in the cataclysmic march in Berg's Op. 6, the listener is never conscious of bar-lines or an interpretive ego digesting events for us.

When I hear this conductor, I could write a novel. There's an embarrassment of riches in this box. The orchestral waters in preparation for Berg's first opera--sound like the touch of a master orchestrator. The "nonmetallic" hammer in III, a crib from Mahler's Sixth, sounds perfectly incisive--and a perfectly logical addition to the orchestra. I only wish Karajan's bassoons didn't sound like saxophones in their higher registers. Remember Herbert von Karajan? Perhaps it was inevitable that after his death his reputation would fall into something of an eclipse, but given the size of his discography the classical music world's shortness of memory is rather breathtaking. Make no mistake: he was a great but perfectly reasonable approach to Webern. Karajan's Pelleas is peerless in its tonal luxuriance, unerring sense of pace, and fearless, perfectly-placed climaxes (how those whooping Berlin horns announce Schoenberg's shameless rip-off from Death and Transfiguration 3 minutes into track 6!). Karajan found a lyricism in the works of the Second Viennese School that eluded other conductors. In Berg and Webern, he took too many liberties, but these sumptuous early Schoenberg scores suited him perfectly. into sound like some kind of nervous dream effortlessly, stealthily realized. Karajan makes Berg's scoring--the effort of a 29-year-old testing the waters, and his pieces never have sounded so decadently beautiful, nor the Webern so passionately intense, or the Schoenberg so, well, just plain listenable. The Berlin Philharmonic strings make their usual luscious sounds, but here the winds, brass, and even percussion rise to the occasion as well. And sonically these were always some of Karajan's best efforts.

[Mirror Image]

I certainly agree with you, Leo, about Abbado's Berg. He's an absolute master of the idiom. Interestingly enough I was just listening to Abbado's performance of Three Pieces for Orchestra last night. A great performance.

[Leo K.]

I certainly agree with you, Leo, about Abbado's Berg. He's an absolute master of the idiom. Interestingly enough I was just listening to Abbado's performance of Three Pieces for Orchestra last night. A great performance.

As much as I love Wozzeck, and Berg's violin concerto, I think I like his Op.6 the best. I just love this work.

[Mirror Image]

As much as I love Wozzeck, and Berg's violin concerto, I think I like his Op.6 the best. I just love this work.

Yeah, it's really outstanding. I do like Der Wein, Lulu-Suite, and Seven Early Songs in addition to those works you mentioned as well. I never could get into the Chamber Concerto.

[Leo K.]

Yeah, it's really outstanding. I do like Der Wein, Lulu-Suite, and Seven Early Songs in addition to those works you mentioned as well. I never could get into the Chamber Concerto.

I forgot the Lulu-Suite, that was the work that began my Berg journey! Yeah, the Chamber Concerto is the one I've always listened to the least, it's been a couple of years now, I should return back. I can sense it's slowly, very slowly, growing on me. Not everyone can hit a home run and that's the Chamber Concerto for me, I think I like the concept more than the music.

[Mirror Image]

Not everyone can hit a home run and that's the Chamber Concerto for me, I think I like the concept more than the music.

Absolutely, Leo. Even in Berg's small oeuvre, there are going to be works that you don't enjoy.

[TheGSMoeller]

My introduction to Berg's Wozzeck was from watching Werner Herzog's filmed version of the original play by Georg Buchner. Although Berg's music is not featured in the film, my interest into the story lead me to the opera, and my initial thought was I just had to expeirence an opera based on this material. Needless to say I have fallen in love with Berg's music and the beautiful story of the lovable Wozzeck.

Also, is it safe to say that the Alban Berg String Quartet has the best recording available of the Alban Berg quartet for strings? Because you would think that they should possess that title, otherwise it's a complete fail. 

[Brahmsian]

Also, is it safe to say that the Alban Berg String Quartet has the best recording available of the Alban Berg quartet for strings? Because you would think that they should possess that title, otherwise it's a complete fail. 

  I guess, we could say the same thing about many other quartet ensembles (Shostakovich SQ, Beethoven SQ, Borodin SQ, Taneyev SQ, etc.)

One of my goals in 2013 is to listen to much, much more of Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern's music.  I do have the complete Webern set (on DG), just haven't listened to all of it yet.

I love the Kronos Qt. performance w/ Dawn Upshaw, of Berg's Lyric Suite.

[TheGSMoeller]

  I guess, we could say the same thing about many other quartet ensembles (Shostakovich SQ, Beethoven SQ, Borodin SQ, Taneyev SQ, etc.)

One of my goals in 2013 is to listen to much, much more of Schoenberg, Berg, and Webern's music.  I do have the complete Webern set (on DG), just haven't listened to all of it yet.

I love the Kronos Qt. performance w/ Dawn Upshaw, of Berg's Lyric Suite.

The Webern DG set is awesome!
And that Kronos/Upshaw Lyric disc is a possible desert island for me.