Takashi Asahina

[PerfectWagnerite]

i think the fundamental divide here is not about music, maybe it is because i have the balls to stand up to your bullying, while the rest of forum take it.

Remember this buddy: stones and sticks break bones but words don't

[M forever]

Well, it does sound as if the faults could be attributed to the recording engineers.

If memory serves (it didn't in my previous post), the sole Asahina recording I've heard was a live one.

One comment I've heard that seems to be accurate is that, instead of engaging in the sort of flexibility Furtwängler or Jochum or Wand use to such good effect, Asahina keeps his tempos steady as a march, with no loss of expressivity--an "architectural" approach that serves Bruckner very well indeed.

And yes, it would be interesting to hear Asahina in other music.

Thanks for these comments. Maybe you should check out the Alpensinfonie recording with the NDR SO. It is rather good, often on the slow side, too, but Asahina shows a good understanding for phrasing which makes sense and is stylish.

i think the fundamental divide here is not about music, maybe it is because i have the balls to stand up to your bullying, while the rest of forum take it.

Obviously there is no "fundamental divide" here about music because that's a subject you don't know much and have very little to contribute about. If you did and had some interesting and challenging remarks to make, then there could at least be a discussion. But you have next to nothing of interest to say and your character is so small that you can't take it if people notice that. That completely disqualifies you as an actual discussion partner and reduces your contributions here basically to spam.

Apart from the fact that nobody needs to "stand up" here to anybody, hiding behind Mr Renfield isn't exactly "standing up" anyway. He may be even younger than you but he does actually have some points and opinions which are worth replying to. You don't. You know nothing, and you are nothing. You will probably never amount to much of anything. 19 isn't that young anymore when it comes to that. At that age, it is usually already quite obvious if people have substance. Or not.

[Don]

Obviously there is no "fundamental divide" here about music because that's a subject you don't know much and have very little to contribute about. If you did and had some interesting and challenging remarks to make, then there could at least be a discussion. But you have next to nothing of interest to say and your character is so small that you can't take it if people notice that. That completely disqualifies you as an actual discussion partner and reduces your contributions here basically to spam.

Apart from the fact that nobody needs to "stand up" here to anybody, hiding behind Mr Renfield isn't exactly "standing up" anyway. He may be even younger than you but he does actually have some points and opinions which are worth replying to. You don't. You know nothing, and you are nothing. You will probably never amount to much of anything.

Does this mean you wouldn't recommend MahlerTitan for a position with your employer?  Seriously, my experience tells me that a person always has the potential to turn things around and be a success and a good citizen.

[M forever]

It just sucks to see a little ignorant piece of crap who has achieved nothing in his life yet put down a whole country full of excellent musicians. Then he needs to be put into his place. You don't deserve respect because you don't give respect. You withdrew that statement in the meantime, so that is OK now, but if your little soul is hurt so very, very much still, then remember that next time you make such idiotic remarks, other people might be hurt by them, too.

Does this mean you wouldn't recommend MahlerTitan for a position with your employer?  Seriously, my experience tells me that a person always has the potential to turn things around and be a success and a good citizen.

I don't think we have any job openings right now for unqualified and inexperienced but very, very sensitive little assholes who dish out but can't take it when they are called on their own remarks, but I could check with the office if we do.
I agree with you about the latter, but as you know, that only happens when people have the basic values like respect for the achievement of others which he doesn't have, so chances are slim he will actually turn out to be anything. But that's OK, that's rather normal, the Western world in general is full of little spoiled brats with no qualifications but a lot of attitude.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Uhhhh, I also want to know a bit more about Japanese or Korean or Chinese brass players more. It seems to me (from watching videos anyway) that a lot (and I mean A LOT) of violinist, violist, and cellist at the top orchestras over the world are Asian. But for the life of me I can't remember seeing a single trumpet player, or a horn player who is Asian. THis is just an observation, not an accusation or anything.

[Renfield]

Edit: GB


On topic, I've become more than a little curious about the sound of a good Japanese orchestra, after all this debate. Hopefully, my package from Japan will be arriving on time (Monday morning), and perhaps then I will be able to provide an impression of my own, of the recordings in question.

Thanks for the motivation, at that!

[Renfield]

Excuse me for posting about this, but may I please point out that my post, moderated (half-deleted) as it has been, merely asked for the two "duellers" to keep my name out of their debate (in quite a polite manner), and then apparently went out of line in suggesting that such a debate does not belong in this thread?

With the logic of deleting half of a post such as mine, blunt but nowhere near as rude as some other posts in this thread, half the thread would be gone, wouldn't it? I wasn't callous, I used language nowhere near what you would call "offensive", and my most offending statement was my polite request that we all behave like adults!

I think the edit was uncalled for, and in fact rather biased (given what else has been posted in the current thread), but I will not pursue this further. Again, my apologies for this post.

Edit: I'm saying this because it might appear to someone who did not read my original post that I was slandering either MahlerTitan or M forever, or that I was being obscene in some way - and I would't like that to be the case, as my post concerned solely what I mentioned above, with all due respect to MahlerTitan, M forever, and the rest of the people in this forum.

Second Edit: And please don't delete this for being off-topic. I value my good manners, and would not want to see them under question. Hence this post, and hence my being so out of order as to make it.

[M forever]

Excuse me for posting about this, but may I please point out that my post, moderated (half-deleted) as it has been, merely asked for the two "duellers" to keep my name out of their debate

I didn't read the unedited post, but that's basically what I said, too. I don't know why MT had to drag your name in, apparently because he thought he could somehow hide behind you, it was a little unclear to me what he had in mind with that anyway. Weak people often do that when they lost an argument. Although there was no real argument here anyway. I just told him not to say such stupid things about Japanese musicians, and that apparently hurt his little soul a lot. Still, that was a really dumb thing he said, and instead of just admitting that, he had to play the victim. People often do that, too...

[Renfield]

I didn't read the unedited post, but that's basically what I said, too. I don't know why MT had to drag your name in, apparently because he thought he could somehow hide behind you, it was a little unclear to me what he had in mind with that anyway. Weak people often do that when they lost an argument. Although there was no real argument here anyway. I just told him not to say such stupid things about Japanese musicians, and that apparently hurt his little soul a lot. Still, that was a really dumb thing he said, and instead of just admitting that, he had to play the victim. People often do that, too...

People do indeed engage in lots of interesting activities... Anyway, it seems like my non-Asahina-related point was made. And perhaps I was indeed somehow out of bounds in that original post; or perhaps it was edited simply in being perceived as continuing the argument: I cannot be sure.

Still, the delivery of my JVC Asahina cycle draws nearer and nearer, and as I am very likely to listen through the 4-9 part of it on Monday itself, or Tuesday at the latest, I might as well post individual impressions, here; though it will be "by ear". I'm nowhere nearly as acquainted with written music as to follow Bruckner symphony scores, even if I had them.

[M forever]

Sorry I missed your post. Was it really "offensive"? Was it funny?

[Gurn Blanston]

...or perhaps it was edited simply in being perceived as continuing the argument: I cannot be sure.

Yes you can. Your post came in the middle of an effort to diffuse the non-musical aspects of this thread and the part that was not on topic had been edited while the "On topic..." part left intact. From this point on let's confine the discussion to the topic at hand and not concern ourselves with the personalities of the participants.

[Renfield]

Yes you can. Your post came in the middle of an effort to diffuse the non-musical aspects of this thread and the part that was not on topic had been edited while the "On topic..." part left intact. From this point on let's confine the discussion to the topic at hand and not concern ourselves with the personalities of the participants.

Acknowledged.

JVC Asahina cycle currently in "clearance" - i.e. the part where they decide to charge me almost as much as I paid to order the recording itself, in Greek customs...

And the funny thing is, they consistently do it only for packages with words like "collector's edition" or "box set" in the item names. I've ordered CDs from the USA they didn't bother to stop on other occasions, for instance: perhaps they reckoned I wouldn't pay the extra charge for less interesting titles.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Back to Asahina, this guy is selling a lot of of Asahina CDs and DVDs from Japan. He is asking for some outrageous prices. I think in Japan they are mostly in print and you can get them rather cheaper from HMV (maybe).

[M forever]

I just inhaled the last movement of a live Bruckner 8 with Asahina and the Osaka Philharmonic from 1976 which indeed featured pretty mediocre brass playing. But that doesn't mean that Japanese people can't play brass instruments well in general. The brass playing on this rather slow, but musically very nice recording of Eine Alpensinfonie with Asahina and the All Japan Symphony which I just posted on Operashare is excellent:

http://rapidshare.com/files/49918383/Eine_Alpensinfonie_-_AJSO_-_Asahina.mp3

[sidoze]

i'm not sure if it's been mentioned but there's a huge amount of live Asahina recordings on Operashare. Some mesmerising ones too, including a shocking slow Bruckner 9 with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra (30+ min for the outer movements). His interpretations are fascinating, usually very broad, grand, overwhelming if you like that sort of style.

[M forever]

That's where I got the one movement I listened to. There is really a lot there. Quite confusing. I wondered which of the many might be the more interesting ones. Maybe I will try that CSO recording next.

[M forever]

I don't see that on Operashare! But there is a live CSO 5th. Maybe I will grab that.

[Renfield]

Up(u)date (Since it's from Japan )

I've finally managed to un-wrangle the customs mess that, inevitably, ensued. I should be getting my package the day after tomorrow (hopefully without a third ice age coming along with it ), and after paying a rather "painful" amount of money over the one already spent to order it. But then again, it's all for the collection, so I don't mind.

(Although it will mean I won't be able to pick up the final three Richter: The Master releases that are now available here, yet; perhaps next month...)

[sidoze]

I don't see that on Operashare! But there is a live CSO 5th. Maybe I will grab that.

I believe the OP took it down for privacy reasons. If you want it just PM me, I can upload it.

[Renfield]

The Asahina cycle is finally in my hands, since this morning; but I didn't have the listening-time to get properly "acquainted" with it.

I'll be posting impressions soon, though.