Incorporation of tape..........

[James]

https://youtu.be/QGJuMBdaqIw

I referring to art music, but since you bring up popular music - I can think of hordes of it (pop/rock/jazz) that just absolutely floors most of this meaningless soundscape wankery.

[Monsieur Croche]

The problem with a lot of this stuff (past & present) is that it's just all soundscapes .. 

You wanna talk old-school and severely dated, and impossible to not make sound that way, let's discuss Palestrina, Bach, Vivaldi, Beethoven, Wagner, Sibelius, etc.  Sheesh, indeed!

Please, explain to us just which pieces, out of all classical literature past to present, are not 'just soundscapes.'

[Florestan]

Please, explain to us just which pieces, out of all classical literature past to present, are not 'just soundscapes.'

I am not James but I'll give you one for each composer you mentioned:

Palestrina - Missa papae Marcelli
Vivaldi - La tempesta di mare
Bach - Cappricio sopra la lontananza del suo fratello dilettissimo
Beethoven - Egmont Overture
Wagner - Tannhaeuser
Sibelius - En saga

And please don't forget about this:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,26928.msg1057093.html#msg1057093

I am really interested in what you have to say.

[Monsieur Croche]

I am not James but I'll give you one for each composer you mentioned:

Palestrina - Missa papae Marcelli
Vivaldi - La tempesta di mare
Bach - Cappricio sopra la lontananza del suo fratello dilettissimo
Beethoven - Egmont Overture
Wagner - Tannhaeuser
Sibelius - En saga

I am really interested in what you have to say.

I maintain that any piece of music, I suppose those including text, are, generically, "sonic soundscapes."  I.e. as a less specific and non-pejorative term, that is what they all are.

[some guy]

Murray Schafer it was who coined the term "soundscape," but it's Pauline Oliveros definition that fits more closely into the current discussion:

"All of the waveforms faithfully transmitted to our audio cortex by the ear and its mechanisms".

[Florestan]

"sonic soundscapes."  I.e. as a less specific and non-pejorative term, that is what they all are.

That's like saying all paintings are visual colorscapes --- and let's ignore the pleonasm in both cases. True strictly physically speaking, but completely irrelevant and meaningless when it comes to a specific painting, for instance this one:

[some guy]

But this particular sidepath did not start as a means to identifying useful characteristics of individual works, but a diss (like atonal, maybe) of whatever James happens not to like. Monsieur Croche then simply pointed out that any piece of music could be called a soundscape. As any painting can be called a colorscape. Not particularly useful, no. Not particularly apt as a diss was M. Croche's point, I believe.

[Florestan]

But this particular sidepath did not start as a means to identifying useful characteristics of individual works, but a diss (like atonal, maybe) of whatever James happens not to like. Monsieur Croche then simply pointed out that any piece of music could be called a soundscape. As any painting can be called a colorscape. Not particularly useful, no. Not particularly apt as a diss was M. Croche's point, I believe.

With this I wholeheartedly agree. Each and every single work of art has a context, which can't be ignored without the risk of misconstrueing and misunderstanding it.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Ok I had a fascinating experience today with one of the composition teachers who was trialling an idea for an upcoming piece with us. She had created a musique concrète track and then worked out a live piano part based on harmonic partials from the track n stuff like that. the musique concrète element of the piece was composed in the way one would expect for a composition that is instrument+tape (or CD) to be performed with speakers as well as the live instrument. The difference here is that it was created for the purpose of a mobile phone's microphone....the idea being that the speakers that the audience hears the electronic part of the piece are actually the speaker from their mobile phones (they get a link to download the track to their device and they are given a downbeat by the pianist to press play at the start of the piece). I was sitting at the edge of the room and about 20 to 30 phones were being played ever so slightly out of synch due to the expected inaccuracy of hitting the play button all at the same time. I thought the concept worked, although the people sitting in the middle certainly got the better seats to be surrounded by the sound.

Maybe I could use this idea in the future. What do you think of it?

[some guy]

Does it matter what we think? I would say no. It only matters what you think of the idea.

You're a human. You're interested in something. Chances are, there will be other humans similarly interested.

Done.

(Oh, and also, DO IT!! I'd like to hear something like that.)

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Does it matter what we think? I would say no. It only matters what you think of the idea.

You're a human. You're interested in something. Chances are, there will be other humans similarly interested.

Done.

(Oh, and also, DO IT!! I'd like to hear something like that.)

Thanks for telling me what you think

But also, good advice

[some guy]

I hoped that that would amuse you.

[Monsieur Croche]

Does it matter what we think? I would say no. It only matters what you think of the idea.

You're a human. You're interested in something. Chances are, there will be other humans similarly interested.

Done.

(Oh, and also, DO IT!! I'd like to hear something like that.)

I'm not enchanted with the idea, other than the flirtation with some degree of "audience participation."  One could plan on that slight out of sync effect in making both the concrete element as well as the whole piece, of course, and play with it well, imo.

My disenchantment with the concept is with the audio quality of the phone speakers itself.

I think and hope that you are already keenly aware that if you are not yourself keenly interested in a concept or musical idea, that to pursue it is nigh onto futile ;-)


Always best regards.

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

I'm not enchanted with the idea, other than the flirtation with some degree of "audience participation."  One could plan on that slight out of sync effect in making both the concrete element as well as the whole piece, of course, and play with it well, imo.

My disenchantment with the concept is with the audio quality of the phone speakers itself.

I think and hope that you are already keenly aware that if you are not yourself keenly interested in a concept or musical idea, that to pursue it is nigh onto futile ;-)


Always best regards.

The audio quality of phone speakers are pretty terrible....i would hope that the only reason do use them is for a low-fi aesthetic, which could be perfectly fine when done well.

[PaulSC]

I wonder how unobtrusively I can post after a 2-year absence from GMG?  (Of course this preamble won't help my chances...)

Plenty of my favorite works have already been mentioned,  but I'm surprised not see Mario Davidovsky's Synchronisms,  a series of works for one or more live performers plus tape. Nearly all have been recorded,  but surely it's time for a complete set!

Synchronisms 6 for Piano and Tape
https://youtu.be/b1asXsfEmE0

Synchronisms 9 for Violin and Tape
https://youtu.be/wJCcERdh6rA

And I'm less surprised to be making the first mention of Arthur Kreiger,  but he has produced a number of wonderful pieces with tape. Highly recommended to anyone who enjoys Davidovsky.

Joint Session for Bass Clarinet and Tape
https://youtu.be/GKamYYF88a8

Meeting Places for Ensemble and Tape
https://youtu.be/QnUL3oShFzY

[bwv 1080]

One of my fav BF pieces

https://www.youtube.com/v/KQVeOp12_E4

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

I wonder how unobtrusively I can post after a 2-year absence from GMG?  (Of course this preamble won't help my chances...)

Plenty of my favorite works have already been mentioned,  but I'm surprised not see Mario Davidovsky's Synchronisms,  a series of works for one or more live performers plus tape. Nearly all have been recorded,  but surely it's time for a complete set!

Synchronisms 6 for Piano and Tape
https://youtu.be/b1asXsfEmE0

Synchronisms 9 for Violin and Tape
https://youtu.be/wJCcERdh6rA

And I'm less surprised to be making the first mention of Arthur Kreiger,  but he has produced a number of wonderful pieces with tape. Highly recommended to anyone who enjoys Davidovsky.

Joint Session for Bass Clarinet and Tape
https://youtu.be/GKamYYF88a8

Meeting Places for Ensemble and Tape
https://youtu.be/QnUL3oShFzY

Wow thank you! I wasn't aware of these before you posted! Glad that you decided to make another post!

[James]

I maintain that any piece of music, I suppose those including text, are, generically, "sonic soundscapes."  I.e. as a less specific and non-pejorative term, that is what they all are.

What I ment was that most of this shit just ends up being about the sound, not the melody.

[Contemporaryclassical]

I feel most modern tape music is behind in technology, both the music and the way it is often "performed" feels very underutilized. Rock bands in the 70s seemed to be performing more elaborate concerts, are we really that far behind?

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

What I ment was that most of this shit just ends up being about the sound, not the melody.

Lmao

Depends what you're listening for in music. It's a silly idea to blame the creator rather than yourself for 'getting it wrong.'