Brexit

[Irons]

TV5 is not that bad. Arte is very good (a Franco-German venture, granted, but still...). And of course there is always Mezzo.

Beside BBC World (which I find no different than any number of similar channels) I haven't watched any British TV.

I was quoting the article. I enjoyed the French "Chasing the Money" not as good though as the Scandie "The Bridge" which is being repeated here currently. Series one is better second time around. British TV is hopeless.

[Florestan]

I was quoting the article.

I know. I should have quoted Sunday Times instead of directly your post.

British TV is hopeless.

Romanian TV is no better. Not all channels rubbish but most of them, most of the time.

[accmacmus]

It sounds trivial, but politically I think fisheries will be a pivotal topic.
A deal that puts thousands of Dutch, Danish, Flemish and French fishermen out of work, would be politically impossible to sell in the EU...

I would have said the contrary: fisheries account for the 0.12% of economic output of the United Kingdom and the whole «agriculture, fisheries and forestry» sector in, e.g., France amounts to a ≃1.6% (in the 60s it was 10%).
On the other hand — as you correctly said — politics is not just arithmetic on economic data.

This is the timetable for the 19-20 August negotiation round: two days to find some common ground on level playing field, fisheries, trade in goods, services and more... I hope the two negotiators know what they are doing.

[steve ridgway]

I was quoting the article. I enjoyed the French "Chasing the Money" not as good though as the Scandie "The Bridge" which is being repeated here currently. Series one is better second time around. British TV is hopeless.

BBC documentary TV is very good, and the occasional drama.

[Irons]

BBC documentary TV is very good, and the occasional drama.

I am told the best drama is to be found on Netflix, Sky Atlantic and others. I don't subscribe so cannot confirm if it is. I didn't bother with "Doc Martin" (ITV) first time around but must admit enjoying the repeats. "Killing Eve" (BBC) is excellent. Other then that - nothing I can think of. Some excellent drama from abroad televised Saturday nights on Channel 4.

As for BBC documentary, I would rather not go there.

[Irons]

Brexit negotiations.

[accmacmus]

Eight negotiation round in a few days

Michel Barnier, EU negotiatior: «Leaving London after talks with @DavidGHFrost. 🇪🇺 will continue these difficult negotiations with patience and determination. Full round in 🇬🇧 next week. Virtual tour of EU capitals is on going to help Member States prepare for all scenarios and inevitable #Brexit changes on 1/1/21.»

David Frost, UK negotiator: «Here is the agenda for the 8th Round of our talks with the EU.  We look forward to welcoming @MichelBarnier and his team to London next week. We have scheduled lots of time for discussions, as we should at this point in the talks. However, the EU still insists we change our positions on state aid and fisheries if there are to be substantive textual discussions on anything else. From the very beginning we have been clear about what we can accept in these areas, which are fundamental to our status as an independent country. We will negotiate constructively but the EU's stance may, realistically, limit the progress we can make next week.»

[Irons]

Frost is quoted as saying of Barnier He wants to have his fishcake and eat it.

With Scottish independence an ever increasing threat to the United Kingdom, fishing quotas in the North Sea have great political significance. If we leave and EU retain fishing quotas Scotland are gone. 

[Que]

I'm not surprised that fish quotas is a potential breaking point.

And state aid, which used to be Corbin's hobby horse. What happened to the Tories? 

Word is that EU is willing to compromise on the fish quotas, in exchange for guarantees on state aid.

But it seems the UK isn't willing to compromise on either.... For political reasons...

Q

[Irons]

I'm not surprised that fish quotas is a potential breaking point.

And state aid, which used to be Corbin's hobby horse. What happened to the Tories? 

Word is that EU is willing to compromise on the fish quotas, in exchange for guarantees on state aid.

But it seems the UK isn't willing to compromise on either.... For political reasons...

Q

The Tory Government are flip flapping like a hungry seal at the present time. If a U turn can be made they are making it. Obviously this is not missed by the EU negotiating team and they think push and the UK will fall into line. The dangerous scenario is that both sides make a miscalculation and we end up with no deal. I personally can now envisage no other outcome.     

[Iota]

The dangerous scenario is that both sides make a miscalculation and we end up with no deal.

It hardly seems like a miscalculation now that the government are introducing legislation on Wednesday (in the Internal Market Bill), effectively reneging on agreements made with the EU about the Northern Ireland Protocol and state aid. It seems more like a deliberate attempt to sabotage talks and make no deal an inevitable outcome.

Apart from the prospect of no deal being a frightening one, if it does happen any future negotiators with this UK government will presumably assume complete untrustworthiness in them, and adjust their behaviour accordingly, hardly an auspicious setting for forging a new future. : (

[Que]

It hardly seems like a miscalculation now that the government are introducing legislation on Wednesday (in the Internal Market Bill), effectively reneging on agreements made with the EU about the Northern Ireland Protocol and state aid. It seems more like a deliberate attempt to sabotage talks and make no deal an inevitable outcome.

Apart from the prospect of no deal being a frightening one, if it does happen any future negotiators with this UK government will presumably assume complete untrustworthiness in them, and adjust their behaviour accordingly, hardly an auspicious setting for forging a new future. : (

Indeed. Also saw an article in the Financial Time that the UK is planning to backpedle on the exit agreement, which is an international treaty (!)... This is a big no-no in international relations...

If the EU is is not willing to accept such a move, and it probably will not, this would mean the end of any agreement... on anything... And even, particularly if the agreed status of NI is not respected, economic sanctions in the form of import restrictions and limitation of access to the internal market.

Very dangerous stuff....    No amount of fish in the sea that cannot be caught, eaten or exported will make up for it....

Q

[accmacmus]

Also saw an article in the Financial Time that the UK is planning to backpedle on the exit agreement, which is an international treaty (!)... This is a big no-no in international relations...

I thought "maybe the news was overblown/misreported". But apparently it is credible, Von der Leyen (head of EU Commission) herself chimed in

[Herman]

I may be wrong on this, but it sounds like BJ and the Tories are using the fishing industry in the same way Trump used the coal mining industry. Tiny pocket of the economy, just symbolic.

[Iota]

I thought "maybe the news was overblown/misreported". But apparently it is credible, Von der Leyen (head of EU Commission) herself chimed in

Where Ursula von der Leyen is going wrong is summed up in the first five words of her tweet. The British government are  an unprincipled group of incompetent, short-sighted reprobates all bent on vaunting their hardcore brexit credentials, and an unwise investment for her trust.

Obviously she's just trying to put a bit of pressure on them, but they seem too far gone for that now sadly.

I may be wrong on this, but it sounds like BJ and the Tories are using the fishing industry in the same way Trump used the coal mining industry. Tiny pocket of the economy, just symbolic.

Fishing rights have a real history in Britain's relationship with the EU, and though not hugely economically significant, they have always been politically incendiary. They were a major point of tension even when we were getting into the (then) EC in the early seventies, and have remained a sensitive matter, and also one of considerable political ego, which is about the only quality the current lot have left to hang on to.

[Irons]

It hardly seems like a miscalculation now that the government are introducing legislation on Wednesday (in the Internal Market Bill), effectively reneging on agreements made with the EU about the Northern Ireland Protocol and state aid. It seems more like a deliberate attempt to sabotage talks and make no deal an inevitable outcome.

Apart from the prospect of no deal being a frightening one, if it does happen any future negotiators with this UK government will presumably assume complete untrustworthiness in them, and adjust their behaviour accordingly, hardly an auspicious setting for forging a new future. : (

Must admit you have me there. Reneging on agreements is not a good look. The only conclusion I can draw is that the master plan - and I hope to God there is a master plan - does not include the EU in any shape or form.

[Ten thumbs]

Countries can exist on their own. All it takes is a little courage. Let us smile when we think of all the bad things we are leaving behind.

[Herman]

Countries can exist on their own.

You mean like North Korea?

[The new erato]

Countries can exist on their own. All it takes is a little courage. Let us smile when we think of all the bad things we are leaving behind.

Yes, I wonder what they are. Free travel? Effortless import/export of goods?

[Mandryka]

Must admit you have me there. Reneging on agreements is not a good look. The only conclusion I can draw is that the master plan - and I hope to God there is a master plan - does not include the EU in any shape or form.

The master plan is for Dominic and his friends to make some cash and for everyone else to get it in the neck, or die of COVID.