Brexit

[Madiel]

I guess that even a change of govt will not offer the UK a reprieve from Brexit.

Well how could it? The European Union is not simply a matter of a UK government policy. Surely we've learned that by now. The process of joining the EU takes years.

[JBS]

Brexit is over, even though its consequences haven't fully played out.

What would have to happen now is a move to rejoin the EU, and I doubt there is enough sentiment to fuel it anytime in the near future.

[Que]

Brexit is over, even though its consequences haven't fully played out.

What would have to happen now is a move to rejoin the EU, and I doubt there is enough sentiment to fuel it anytime in the near future.

There is another obvious option to avoid the current economic damage besides (re)joining the EU: and that is (re)joining the Internal market as a non-member.The "Norway option", if that does ring a bell?

That the EU will not readmit the UK as member even if the UK wanted to, probably for many decades to come, is abundantly clear. But the EU will be willing to reestablish full economic ties. But for some reason this is either too complicated or too politically sensitive to be publicly even considered. Of course this was also an option when the UK left the EU, but resolutely brushed away...

[Florestan]

C'mon, guys! Compared to the Russian invasion of Ukraine Brexit looks like a stroll in the park at noonday.

[Madiel]

There is another obvious option to avoid the current economic damage besides (re)joining the EU: and that is (re)joining the Internal market as a non-member.The "Norway option", if that does ring a bell?

That still wouldn't involve undoing Brexit. I feel like you're jumping to conclusions with your original comment about Labour.

[Madiel]

C'mon, guys! Compared to the Russian invasion of Ukraine Brexit looks like a stroll in the park at noonday.

Then go talk about that in the appropriate thread.

[Irons]

C'mon, guys! Compared to the Russian invasion of Ukraine Brexit looks like a stroll in the park at noonday.

A stroll in the park is pleasant, Brexit is boring. Who cares anyway, the world has far more important things to worry about.

[Que]

A stroll in the park is pleasant, Brexit is boring. Who cares anyway, the world has far more important things to worry about.

In a way Brexit has always been boring...

But besides matters of war and peace, our quality of life is determined by boring things like science, law, international cooperation and economics.

On the other hand Brexit is less boring and less different than the "more important" things that are happening right now.
Since IMO ideologically Brexit stands for identity politics, nationalism, and anti-globalism. In the free and democratic part of the world we need significantly less of that, instead of more. If we are able to recognise the priorities for the survival of our way of life, that is...

[Irons]

In a way Brexit has always been boring...

But besides matters of war and peace, our quality of life is determined by boring things like science, law, international cooperation and economics.

On the other hand Brexit is less boring and less different than the "more important" things that are happening right now.
Since IMO ideologically Brexit stands for identity politics, nationalism, and anti-globalism. In the free and democratic part of the world we need significantly less of that, instead of more. If we are able to recognise the priorities for the survival of our way of life, that is...

Politically you may be correct. Being a UK resident gives me qualification to comment on the *actuality* of Brexit. The country has not gone to hell in a handcart as Remainers told us it would. By the same token the sunny uplands of a great new future away from the EU shackles leavers promised has failed to materialise. In other words life pre and post Brexit is the same. The only noticeable consequence of Brexit in day to day life is the difficulty of finding and hiring a builder or plumber.   

[Que]

In other words life pre and post Brexit is the same.

Well, that's a good thing.    

The numbers on the economy or the geopolitics don't look the same. But if that hasn't afected you, all the better.

[foxandpeng]

Well, that's a good thing.    

The numbers on the economy or the geopolitics don't look the same. But if that hasn't afected you, all the better.

I usually really dislike the non-music threads here, because some of the heated discussions feel a bit too much like my work day (I work for one of the deeply affected Ministries for Silly Walks here in the UK).

Brexit has largely just become a 'business as usual' fait accompli for most of us, as the article below from the left-leaning Guardian lnk shows.

https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jan/31/post-brexit-economic-crisis-labour-eu-britain

As many have indicated already, we sadly have bigger concerns at present.

[Iota]

Whilst personally I haven't yet felt any particular privations from Brexit (though have a friend whose large and thriving business collapsed almost completely) these rather stark and media-ignored figures seem sobering.

I'm no expert but for such a disparity between the UK's export figures and the rest of the world's, I imagine a rather large number of businesses are not feeling particularly enraptured by Boris' "sunlit uplands".   And with the outlook notably short on sunshine, I wonder if the bite will gradually start to be felt more widely.


https://www.ft.com/content/021c629d-5853-4111-9600-ab5f0eb65a35

'UK goods exports have underperformed the rest of the world in what experts said was a sign that Brexit might be limiting the country's trade performance.

The volume of UK goods exports fell 14 per cent in the three months to January compared with the same period in 2020, before the pandemic, according to the world trade monitor published on Friday by the Netherlands Bureau for Economic Policy Analysis, known as the CPB. This was in stark contrast to the global average of an 8.2 per cent rise over the same period.

The data, which incorporates Office for National Statistics data for the UK, also showed that Britain compared poorly with the performance of all advanced countries where goods exports rose 5 per cent.

The analysis also showed that the UK was underperforming over the long term as it was the only country tracked by the CPB where goods exports remained below the 2010 average.

"While most other advanced economies have seen a strong recovery in trade, UK exports remain below pre-pandemic levels," said Jonathan Portes, professor of economics at King's College London.'

[71 dB]

In other words life pre and post Brexit is the same.

Good for you! As a Finn living in Finland who had no say in the Brexit referendum I feel the Brexit in my life. For example If I order Blu-rays from ARROWFILMS I now have to pay VAT twice, the UK VAT + Finnish VAT making purchases significantly less attractive. Fortunately some British online stores such as Amazon are in IOSS system making ordering from them as easy as before Brexit, but my options of purchase have reduced.

All brits are not as lucky as you. One Michael Lambert whose Youtube videos I have been watching had a business with 300 clients all over the Europe he had built over 15 years. He lost all of that business in one night when Brexit came into effect. Why? Because his clients in Europe won't hassle with all the paperwork and expenses the Brexit means.

[Madiel]

I now have to pay VAT twice, the UK VAT + Finnish VAT making purchases significantly less attractive.

Well that just sounds incorrect. For example, Presto has never charged me UK VAT because they know I'm buying externally. It sounds like you're buying from a UK company that has got this wrong.

[J.A.W.]

Well that just sounds incorrect. For example, Presto has never charged me UK VAT because they know I'm buying externally. It sounds like you're buying from a UK company that has got this wrong.

VAT is now charged by Presto on orders from EU residents, using the IOSS scheme: https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/ioss_en, which means they don't have to pay VAT on arrival anymore - if everything goes right, that is; my first order from Presto since this came into effect went horribly wrong and I was charged twice; fortunately, it was refunded.

[71 dB]

Well that just sounds incorrect. For example, Presto has never charged me UK VAT because they know I'm buying externally. It sounds like you're buying from a UK company that has got this wrong.

Yes, it is incorrect, but they still do it. As a customer I can do nothing but stop doing business with them (that's what I have done). If I have understood correctly, it is the Hut Group that has this fault and Arrowfilms is nowadays owned by the Hut Group, unfortunately. Arrowfilms became my favorite Blu-ray publisher just before Brexit and this merger with the HUT Group... 

VAT is now charged by Presto on orders from EU residents, using the IOSS scheme: https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/ioss_en, which means they don't have to pay VAT on arrival anymore - if everything goes right, that is; my first order from Presto since this came into effect went horribly wrong and I was charged twice; fortunately, it was refunded.

IOSS is great! When it works it is like ordering before Brexit. Good for Presto! Sorry to hear your first order went wrong, but I suppose things are working now. I made an order from Amazon.co.uk in February and IOSS worked beautifully!  0:)

[MusicTurner]

Brexit obviously receded a bit as a subject, & I haven't followed it much lately, but nonetheless this caught one's interest a bit:

"One part of a queue out the U.K. last Friday. I'm not exaggerating - operation brock wasn't long enough for the sheer amount of trucks waiting to queue.
I counted 24 miles - and that didn't include the road into Dover docks."

https://twitter.com/vanmaneuro/status/1511830832876560388
https://twitter.com/vanmaneuro/status/1511831526043959302

It seems like something has to be fixed ...

[Que]

It seems like something has to be fixed ...

What about common rules agreed between the UK and its trading partners to reduce red tape and facilitate trade?

Oh wait, that's the situation where we came from...   

I see no fix other than the UK rejoining the internal market (which is not the same as rejoing the EU).
The British economy is struggling. The longer they wait, the more damage will be done.

[71 dB]

What about common rules agreed between the UK and its trading partners to reduce red tape and facilitate trade?

Oh wait, that's the situation where we came from...   

I see no fix other than the UK rejoining the internal market (which is not the same as rejoing the EU).
The British economy is struggling. The longer they wait, the more damage will be done.

Absolutely correct! If the UK insists being outside EU then so be it, but they could learn something from Norwegians who are smart enough to be part of the European internal market.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Brexit obviously receded a bit as a subject, & I haven't followed it much lately, but nonetheless this caught one's interest a bit:

"One part of a queue out the U.K. last Friday. I'm not exaggerating - operation brock wasn't long enough for the sheer amount of trucks waiting to queue.
I counted 24 miles - and that didn't include the road into Dover docks."

https://twitter.com/vanmaneuro/status/1511830832876560388
https://twitter.com/vanmaneuro/status/1511831526043959302

It seems like something has to be fixed ...

Wow!    How could the UK join the internal market?

PD