Why (or how) should I listen to Bruckner?

[bhodges]

Or ....... the unadulterated, unedited Bruckner, if allowed to proceed untethered & unimpeded, may have developed masterpieces even greater than the 8th and 9th as we know them ......... and this shackle-free Bruckner may have actually finished the 9th's finale .........

True enough!

--Bruce

[jochanaan]

Further (and I just looked to see if I'd already mentioned it in this thread, since I know I've mentioned it elsewhere), I think everyone should try to hear the First Symphony in its first version (e.g., Tintner's recording) just to experience the "original, unadulterated, unprodded" Bruckner...

You'll get no argument from me!  Tintner has done the world a singular service by recording the original versions of Bruckner's symphonies.  (I assume he's done that with others besides the Eighth, which I have, and the First...?)

[Mark]

You'll get no argument from me!  Tintner has done the world a singular service by recording the original versions of Bruckner's symphonies.  (I assume he's done that with others besides the Eighth, which I have, and the First...?)

I believe so. I downloaded the lot a few weeks ago, and while the sound quality might not be demonstration, it is interesting to hear Tintner's recordings - even the '0' and '00' Symphonies have something to offer.

On the subject of Bruckner in general, am I alone in hearing his symphonies in a rather 'simple' way? The length and scale of Mahler is there in his symphonic works, but I always get left feeling there was a lack of complexity and development whenever I reach the end. A fault on my part, I'm sure - I'll wager there's some jolly clever technical stuff going on of which I'm completely ignorant.

[jochanaan]

On the subject of Bruckner in general, am I alone in hearing his symphonies in a rather 'simple' way? The length and scale of Mahler is there in his symphonic works, but I always get left feeling there was a lack of complexity and development whenever I reach the end. A fault on my part, I'm sure - I'll wager there's some jolly clever technical stuff going on of which I'm completely ignorant.

Bruckner's music is outwardly simple, but that's deceptive; there's a lot going on that isn't apparent on first hearing, "under the surface" as it were.  I'm sometimes fascinated at just how good and subtle Bruckner is at sneaking his thematic material past his listeners, such as in the Eighth Symphony's first movement when a solo oboe begins the main theme's restatement while the strings and flute are still swirling through misty development.

[greg]

listened to the 8th and 9th symphonies a few days ago.
liked both, though the last movement of the 8th is really hard to understand on first hearing. The scherzo of the 9th is of course, really cool. What's weird is how he develops an idiom that's actually reminiscent of Prokofiev (he did write it around the time Prokofiev was born)  .
duh duh DUH duh duh duh DUH duh

[Lilas Pastia]

It's not reminiscent, but prophetic then!

[12tone.]

I too had problems with Bruckner (folks here who have been on here for some time remember my...less than enthusiastic remarks about Bruckner symphonies) but now I like him.

Symph #8 by Chailly was the recording that got too me.  I had had the DG Jochum set and found it utterly boring but I guess it was the quality (both in sound and conducting) of Chailly's 8th that did it.  I had tried listening to Bruckner for some time and left the set unlistened to for a very long time.  Picked up Chailly's Bruckner 8 and it was a blast. 

The adagio of the 8th is great but the adagio of the 7th beats it hands down.

I would recommend the 8th symphony or the 7th to anyone trying to get into Bruckner symphonies.  If you like Wagner and Brahms you might like it.  Try and focus on the wonderful brass section and the melodies therein.  Stunning.

[greg]

It's not reminiscent, but prophetic then!

exactly! (i just didn't feel like being so dramatic at the time)

(it is odd, that a composer who can't possibly get any different from Prokofiev ends up sounding like someone who foreshadows him)

[Dr. Dread]

Well, his 4th has finally clicked with me, thanks to Wand mostly and Karajan knocking it home. So, I can't say I hate Bruckner now, not that I ever did say that.

[alkan]

How to listen to Bruckner ?

That's easy !     Just listen to the coda of the first and last movements of each symphony !!   

That way you will get the best parts and also save a LOT of time 

[Dr. Dread]

How to listen to Bruckner ?

That's easy !     Just listen to the coda of the first and last movements of each symphony !!   

That way you will get the best parts and also save a LOT of time 

Could you compile those for us and upload them to the 'net?

[ChamberNut]

How to listen to Bruckner ?

That's easy !     Just listen to the coda of the first and last movements of each symphony !!   

That way you will get the best parts and also save a LOT of time 

I always thought that listening to the middle movements of Bruckner is a great intro to Bruckner.  The Adagio and Scherzos are "must hear".  That's how I eventually "cracked" the Bruckner nut.  And now, I am a BrucknerNut! 

[alkan]

Could you compile those for us and upload them to the 'net?

Hmm, that would be quite something !!    Twenty minutes of continuous mega-climaxes ...    I don't think my audio system (or my ears) could take it ... 

[Dr. Dread]

Hmm, that would be quite something !!    Twenty minutes of continuous mega-climaxes ...    I don't think my audio system (or my ears) could take it ... 

Pity.

[alkan]

I always thought that listening to the middle movements of Bruckner is a great intro to Bruckner.  The Adagio and Scherzos are "must hear".  That's how I eventually "cracked" the Bruckner nut.  And now, I am a BrucknerNut! 

Yes, I was not being very serious.       I do normally listen to the whole symphony and some of the adagios are sublime ......

[Superhorn]

   I've been a Bruckner fan since I was just a teenager, and now I know his music intimately and have no problems with its unorthodox and complex structure.
  I would recommend getting the Jochum/Dresden EMI set of all nine symphonies, available for a steal now on Brilliant records, and immerse yourself in the symphonies chronologically. The first is by far the shortest, and about the same length as the Brahms 1st. It deserves to be better known, and contains the seeds of the later Bruckner.
  I don't agree about the completions of the finale; they sound quite convincing to me, and genuinely Brucknerian, and bring the symphony to a thrilling conclusion. I'm no longer satisfied with the first three movements alone,and wish that more conductors would do ithe whole thing live.I covered this in an earlier thread I started but others disagreed with me.
  I see the program of the finale as Bruckner's triumpant entrance into heaven after the struggles of his difficult life.

[Lilas Pastia]

Excellent post, Superhorn  .

I agree that more concert exposure to the finale of the 9th would bring a lot more the picture (as it stands, the only possibility we have is to buy a record or book a concert in Europe ).

OTOH, for anyone who's heard that symphony for some 30-40 years in its three-movement form the 'completed 9th' still appears like a dog walking on its hind legs. Fascinating, but not what AB would have written. We should be able to disagree about the subject without being in disagreement on the work.  As it stands, I have some 25 discs of symphonies 7-9 to listen to (I'm veeery patient). One of those is about the completed 9th (Cobra's own version). Maybe I'll have an epiphany!

[ChamberNut]

One of those is about the completed 9th (Cobra's own version). Maybe I'll have an epiphany!

Please have a mongoose on stand-by. 

[Lilas Pastia]

An old monkey like me knows about the cobra's charms - sssssssss - and their attacks  .

Next AB concert on my schedule is the 8th with Nézet-Séguin's Montreal orchestra (in June). And a dozen recordings in between, of course!

[c#minor]

lights off, in bed, a pair of good headphones, no distractions. Then wait and let the music overwhelm you.

I had a lot of trouble with Bruckner before i did this. I am really happen i found a way to listen to it. Think of a Mozart, Haydn etc. symphony as a little kid, nimble and can jump around a lot with ease, then a Beethoven, Brahms, etc. as an adult who can get around and move more powerfully than a little kid but not as nimble and finicky. Then think of Bruckner as a GIANT who can step over a mountain. Not nimble and moves a whole lot slower but when it moves it's something to see. It just takes awhile to grasp the enormity of it all.

That's at least how i think of it.