Why (or how) should I listen to Bruckner?

[Chaszz]

I've tried several times and he defeats me. Someone on this forum enthused about the adagio in Sym. 8 recently, so I tried it (Barenboim, Berlin Philharmonic). It seems to me like a lot of very slow, blocky, almost Erector-set  buiilding up to climaxes that never arrive; the themes just shift instead of resolving into anything musically satisfying. I love Wagner and Brahms, so this should be my territory. Not every composer is for everyone, so it will be no surprise to me if I never get him. But before giving up for good, I thought I'd try asking here. 

[david johnson]

i enjoy bruckner more than i do wagner/brahms.  the way he does what you describe 'buiilding up to climaxes' satisfies me and the shifts keep me from being bored.  i like brahms, too...lots of variety for my ear.

i think i like B9 the best.  give it a try.

dj

[karlhenning]

Or, try another genre at first.

The choral motets, or perhaps the lovely E Minor Mass.

[Renfield]

Well, first of all, do get yourself a good recording of the 8th (or any other Bruckner work you're intending to approach). Bruckner is one of those composers for the works of whom, in my opinion, it's either a good performance or a mess.

Assuming you do find a good performance of any Bruckner symphony (and you can look around the forum and/or ask us for pointers, obviously), the next step would be to immerse yourself in it - or at least that's how I first came to know Bruckner.

The way he writes music, with all those thick lines, and "waves" of sound, it's best to approach him like water: i.e. like the sea when you're going diving, for instance. Then again, you might want to try analysing the sound you hear, first; and that's also viable, although I'd personally find it harder to start with analysing Bruckner, out of all people!

The bottom line is: Bruckner is not "an easy listen", when you first approach him. But assuming you find a performance you can trust to have something hidden within it, keep listening. Eventually, you are more likely than not to discover "what lies within", and maybe even move on to another work, before coming back to the one you initially approached.

(On a personal note, I think the 8th Symphony is a very good place to start, with Bruckner: and there are many excellent recordings of various styles to choose from, for this one. So as I said, keep at it: persistence prevails! )

[jochanaan]

The "immersion" approach is definitely best.  However, I feel that the earlier symphonies are if anything a better place to start, with the exception of the Seventh; they're less monumental and challenging.  And SHORTER!

My first recording of the Eighth was a 1960s set with Zubin Mehta and the LA Phil on London.  Gag me with a spoon! I swear the brass never played above mezzo-forte, and his tempos were all over the place!  (Some flexibility usually serves Bruckner very well, but you've gotta know how to do it.  Jochum, Wand, and Barenboim know how; Mehta just sounds wishy-washy.  But I'm willing to admit that this was an anomaly; I've heard others speak admiringly of Mehta's Bruckner, and I've heard some very fine Mahler from his baton...)  Fortunately, my next was Horenstein with the Vienna Symphony, and then I discovered Celibidache.

[PSmith08]

The place where I started with Bruckner, and have since had little (though not "no") trouble, was the 4th. Karl Böhm's 1973 recording on Decca or Otto Klemperer's 1965 set on EMI are both really fine recordings. I'm partial to Klemperer, but I like his style in general. He blazes through that 4th, taking 1:00:58 or about 8 minutes faster than the middle-of-the-road approach (especially compared to Celibidache at 1:19:10 and Von Karajan's 1971 set at 1:10:12), and turns in a very, very fine account.

I think the trick is twofold: first, find the symphony that clicks for you; second, immerse yourself in it. Once you "get" what Bruckner's doing, you can move relatively easily between the works. Also, this is a cliché, but true: he's operating in a Wagnerian musical idiom. I don't think it's as simple as some of his detractors would assert, but he's definitely following Wagner's lead in a symphonic grammar. That might help you tease out what he's up to as well.

[beclemund]

I had a very easy time enjoying Jochum's DG set and later Tintner's Naxos cycle. About 100 Bruckner symphonies later, I can still say I do not "get" it fully, but I do enjoy the experience every time.

[mahlertitan]

I've tried several times and he defeats me. Someone on this forum enthused about the adagio in Sym. 8 recently, so I tried it (Barenboim, Berlin Philharmonic). It seems to me like a lot of very slow, blocky, almost Erector-set  buiilding up to climaxes that never arrive; the themes just shift instead of resolving into anything musically satisfying. I love Wagner and Brahms, so this should be my territory. Not every composer is for everyone, so it will be no surprise to me if I never get him. But before giving up for good, I thought I'd try asking here. 

you will be surprised yourself, when one day, out of nowhere, the adagio of the 8th will hit you, and you will understand (or begin to understand) Bruckner.

my friend, patience, patience, patience! listen to every each note, do not expect huge drama or dance/lyrical melodies that you hear from Brahms or Wagner. This man claims that his music is given by God himself, so you should be a pious good listener, and just listen, and listen to it again and again, until one day, the sunshine will peek through the dark clouds, and the glorious sounds of Bruckner will embrace you at last.

you should also get acquainted with Bruckner's style, and listen to his rather "lyrical" symphony no. 7, or "romantic" symphony no.4, and the 9th also, these are his more "accessible" symphonies.

[BachQ]

Try his 9th Symphony in D Minor (Bruno Walter).

[mahlertitan]

Try his 9th Symphony in D Minor (Bruno Walter).

that is a good choice, although i would not hesitate to say that Walter's other recordings with Columbia are equally impressive.

[mahlertitan]

Try the 1st movement of the seventh.

or the second.

[Grazioso]

I always recommend visiting http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/discoveringmusic/audioarchive.shtml and listening the free lecture-performances about a piece or composer you're trying to come to grips with. The Bruckner lectures are quite good, as I recall.

Bruckner is definitely his own man where architecture is concerned, so it's best to approach his work on its own terms. Don't get hung up on his symphonies, either: try the sublime string quintet, the choral Te Deum, or the short and approachable motets.

[quintett op.57]

I think 6 is a good start.

How long have you been listening to classical? specifically to symphonies?
Never give up. Listen to other symphonists, I think it gets easier once you enjoy guys like Haydn.
Vienna's School surely had a great influence on him.

I think someone who's determined to enjoy his music is almost sure to succeed.
The secret is in listening anyway.

[mahlertitan]

not entirely related to the topic, but Ken Russell actually made a "whimsical" film about Bruckner, it's called
"The Strange Afflictions of Anton Bruckner"

here:
http://www.youtube.com/v/doyvwxg8VSs

[Chaszz]

Thank you all for the advice. I will keep trying, though not steadily, too much music by other composers to hear! The advice to try shorter works and non-symphonies sounds like it may be fruitful. To the one poster who asked if I had experience listening to and enjoying symphonies, yes, fifty years worth!

[LaciDeeLeBlanc]

While cleaning out my car about a year ago, I had the radio on the classical music station.  Well, lo and behold, the finale to Bruckner's 8th was on.  I wasn't able to listen to the symphony beginning to end, only the finale.  By the final succession of the three notes in a brass section I was hooked.  I wrote down on a scrap sheet of paper that it was Bruckner's 8th, and I never forgot it.  It was months later before I could get a recording of it, and finally listen to the piece in its entirity.  Hearing only the last movement was just an irresistable preview.  Had I heard the adagio first, I might not have been as enamored, (not that I don't love it now).  Perhaps you could find something of Bruckner, even one movement of one of his symphonies, that sounds more like Wagner and Brahms, and start from there?  I don't know if this information will help you any, just a thought.

[Renfield]

While cleaning out my car about a year ago, I had the radio on the classical music station.  Well, lo and behold, the finale to Bruckner's 8th was on.  I wasn't able to listen to the symphony beginning to end, only the finale.  By the final succession of the three notes in a brass section I was hooked.

Aren't those final three notes mesmerising? As I mentioned above, the first Bruckner recording I ever heard was the 8th - and the Karajan/VPO recording, no less! Yet those final three notes are still perhaps the moment to savour, in this fantastic symphony.

Along with the previous (longer) note, it's like saying "aaaand, this, is, it": such a supremely concise statement, so astonishing a closure, literally, that it still lingers in my mind when I think of Bruckner's 8th. Hence this mini-rant, I guess.

[BachQ]

While cleaning out my car about a year ago, I had the radio on the classical music station.  Well, lo and behold, the finale to Bruckner's 8th was on.  I wasn't able to listen to the symphony beginning to end, only the finale.  By the final succession of the three notes in a brass section I was hooked.  I wrote down on a scrap sheet of paper that it was Bruckner's 8th, and I never forgot it.  It was months later before I could get a recording of it, and finally listen to the piece in its entirity.  Hearing only the last movement was just an irresistable preview.  Had I heard the adagio first, I might not have been as enamored, (not that I don't love it now). 

Nice story. 

Perhaps you could find something of Bruckner, even one movement of one of his symphonies, that sounds more like Wagner and Brahms, and start from there?  I don't know if this information will help you any, just a thought.

Again, good advice! 

[Michel]

Perhaps I am not the best person to help here; Bruckner was actually one of the first composers I got into in a big way.

However, one thing I can say that I think is useful, do not try his 8th if you are struggling already. It is a massive, unwieldy work and enjoying it is highly dependent, in my view, on getting a recording you click with.

I say this because my biggest problem was simply getting "lost" in his music; to me a lot of the time he just sounded like a mass of sound. In the 8th this is particularly pronounced. It was too big for me to decipher. Nevertheless, I do think many of his adagios are very accessible, and I think pretty much everyone can appreciate his masterful use of chromaticism in his symphonies.

I think one of the easiest to get to grips with is the 9th; it is a piece of music that isn't inobvious in deciphering what he is aiming for and it possesses a momentum that makes it easier to hear than other symphonies; you don't get lost in it.

Try it! Bruckner is amazing!

[max]

not entirely related to the topic, but Ken Russell actually made a "whimsical" film about Bruckner, it's called
"The Strange Afflictions of Anton Bruckner"

It's not whimsical, it's stupid! It's a shortened 'Amadeus' version of Bruckner.

Ken Russell also made a Mahler film. The only thing great about it was the Austrian landscape and the music.