Brahms Symphony Cycles

[Renfield]

I actually think I might have that one around as well.

I've only heard the 2nd and 3rd from the Columbia cycle, but I strongly prefer his earlier work as a whole. Even more so a 3rd with the Vienna Philharmonic in an Andante release I recently picked up, which is quite superb.

But more about that box in this thread at a later point, once I've gone through all the contents; I do intend to make a post about it.

[rubio]

I listened to some Brahms lately, and more specifically these three sets.

The Kempe is still my slight favourite among all the sets I own. I love the broadness combined with the inner pulse, dancing rhythms and forward thrust of these readings. The BPO strings are just delicious .

The Kubelik and the Sanderling I would characterise as middle of the road Brahms interpretations. I clearly prefer Kubelik of these two sets. He and the BRSO has an immaculate sense of the subtle details in the music and the balances between orchestral sections. It has a darker hue than Kempe and the readings feel quite dramatic. I just miss the last ounce of forward thrust. The readings are a tad slower than Kempe, but especially the Kubelik third recieves a very cohenrent reading. I find this the most difficult of Brahms symphonies to pull off successfully.

The Sanderling/SD set is on the lusher, warmer side with beautiful playing from the orchestra. Especially the 4th receives a fine, emotional reading. I still find Kubelik's readings more dynamic and exciting. And the playings of the BRSO is also very fine.

   

[Que]

I listened to some Brahms lately, and more specifically these three sets.

The Kempe is still my slight favourite among all the sets I own. I love the broadness combined with the inner pulse, dancing rhythms and forward thrust of these readings. The BPO strings are just delicious .

The Kubelik and the Sanderling I would characterise as middle of the road Brahms interpretations. I clearly prefer Kubelik of these two sets. He and the BRSO has an immaculate sense of the subtle details in the music and the balances between orchestral sections. It has a darker hue than Kempe and the readings feel quite dramatic. I just miss the last ounce of forward thrust. The readings are a tad slower than Kempe, but especially the Kubelik third receives a very coherent reading. I find this the most difficult of Brahms symphonies to pull off successfully.

The Sanderling/SD set is on the lusher, warmer side with beautiful playing from the orchestra. Especially the 4th receives a fine, emotional reading. I still find Kubelik's readings more dynamic and exciting. And the playings of the BRSO is also very fine.

   

Kubelik slower than Kempe, mmhh that is pretty slow!  I already find Kempe too slow, but he makes more than up for this by his beautiful interpretation. That Kubelik is slow as well does no come as a surprise since his performance of the German Requiem (also on Orfeo - live rec.) is also slow, and has a rather "Mahlerian" feel to it, btw.

I tried one disc of the Sanderling. That cycle has a strong reputation but I wasn't that impressed, other than by the absolutely gorgeous sounding orchestra. Very middle of the road and undercharacterised IMO.

Q

[rubio]

Kubelik slower than Kempe, mmhh that is pretty slow!  I already find Kempe too slow, but he makes more than up for this by his beautiful interpretation. That Kubelik is slow as well does no come as a surprise since his performance of the German Requiem (also on Orfeo - live rec.) is also slow, and has a rather "Mahlerian" feel to it, btw.

I tried one disc of the Sanderling. That cycle has a strong reputation but I wasn't that impressed, other than by the absolutely gorgeous sounding orchestra. Very middle of the road and undercharacterised IMO.

Q

Kubelik is probably not much slower than Kempe, but I find a bit more thrust and power in Kempe's interpretation. Still I really like Kubelik, because of his nice phrasing and attention to details. BRSO is an orchestra I like a lot also. I saw there was a really cheap new copy at Amazon. Probably you snapped that up .

My impression of the Sanderling/SD is pretty much the same as yours. As I have plenty of Brahms cycles in my limited spaced apartment - this one went up to the attic. I just did not connect too much with it (exceot for the 4th).

[Renfield]

Et exspecto resurrectionem mortuorum!

Or at least I hereby commit it. 0:)


So here's our long-neglected thread about Brahms cycles. Feel free to post things in it again.

I'd start, but my Brahms obsession doesn't quite make me the best arbiter over what would constitute an interesting and relevant topic.

[MishaK]

Does anyone know how the Kempe BPO Brahms compares to his Munich Brahms cycle? The Munich cycle seems to be a bit easier (and cheaper) to come by. I have a BPO Tragic Overture that was included with the EMI/IMG Great Conductors Kempe set. Is that the same one that is on his complete cycle? That one is a scorcher! One of the most intense performances I have ever heard.

[Renfield]

Does anyone know how the Kempe BPO Brahms compares to his Munich Brahms cycle?

Good question! I have the BPO cycle, and I see the Munich cycle is indeed available in the following form:

[asin]B00006CXXV[/asin]

[asin]B00006CXXX[/asin]


Re: the BPO cycle, it's been years since I gave it a spin. I remember it as rather 'warm', singing Brahms. Sort of Günter Wandish, without being that laid back.

If someone can get back to us about the Munich cycle, I'll see about going through the Berlin one and posting updated impressions, sometime in the next few days.

[MishaK]

Re: the BPO cycle, it's been years since I gave it a spin. I remember it as rather 'warm', singing Brahms. Sort of Günter Wandish, without being laid back.

Hmmm... judging by the Tragic Overture alone (and some of his work in other repertoire), Kempe strikes me as being a lot more intense and with a richer color palette than Wand. That's precisely why I'm interested in his Brahms.

[Renfield]

Hmmm... judging by the Tragic Overture alone (and some of his work in other repertoire), Kempe strikes me as being a lot more intense and with a richer color palette than Wand. That's precisely why I'm interested in his Brahms.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to convey with my comment. He's like a more saturated and intense Wand, roughly speaking.

[The new erato]

A couple of recent (re)issues:

[Renfield]

A couple of recent (re)issues:

Hm. The Berlin Symphony Orchestra?

I see they're called the Konzerthausorchester Berlin now... Still, any good?

[Brian]

Newly reappeared, and highly praised around GMG:

[asin]B004H6P2LU[/asin]

[MishaK]

Newly reappeared, and highly praised around GMG:

[asin]B004H6P2LU[/asin]

I don't have 2-4, just 1 and the Requiem from this cycle and both are excellent. One of the most intense, pedal-to-the-metal No.1s in the entire catalog. I think I may have to invest in the complete cycle now that it's available cheaply and re-sell my single issue 1 and Requiem.

[Scarpia]

I don't have 2-4, just 1 and the Requiem from this cycle and both are excellent. One of the most intense, pedal-to-the-metal No.1s in the entire catalog. I think I may have to invest in the complete cycle now that it's available cheaply and re-sell my single issue 1 and Requiem.

Is the audio engineering good?

[MishaK]

Is the audio engineering good?

I have to confess not having listened to it in a while, but I recall it being on par for standard 70s analog stereo. IIRC, this was recorded at Medinah Temple, which avoids some of the dryness and balancing issues in the old Orchestra Hall, but I'm not entirely sure.

[Scarpia]

I have to confess not having listened to it in a while, but I recall it being on par for standard 70s analog stereo. IIRC, this was recorded at Medinah Temple, which avoids some of the dryness and balancing issues in the old Orchestra Hall, but I'm not entirely sure.

Hmmm.  Back in the days of vinyl when RCA pressings (with dynagroove) were horrid I developed the a very negative impression of RCA which I have never shaken off.  Aside from a few "Living Stereo" recording with Reiner I don't know if I have a single RCA  recording.

[MishaK]

FWIW, Hurwitz, in the context of reviewing Levine's later VPO/DG cycle, mentions the earlier CSO/RCA cycle as "one of the best ones".

http://classicstoday.com/review.asp?ReviewNum=11432

On amazon, the prolific and generally reliable "Santa Fe Listener" has this to say about sound:

This cycle was previously available in Japan, and despite the 24-bit remastering, I find no sonic difference between that version and this one. Sony BMG hasn't even taken the trboule to match sound levels, so that the First and Fourth Sym., which are disc mates on CD 1, differ widely. Overall, the sound is good, but the brass and timpani are placed a bit too far back for maximum impact in the First. At high volume the strings turn a bit gritty, also.

http://www.amazon.com/James-Levine-Conducts-Brahms/dp/B004H6P2LU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1301933350&sr=8-1

[Scarpia]

On amazon, the prolific and generally reliable "Santa Fe Listener" has this to say about sound:

Prolific, yes, reliable?  If he ridicules something, I buy it immediately.

On amazon I find J Scott Morrison to be the most helpful review of classical recordings.

[MishaK]

Prolific, yes, reliable?  If he ridicules something, I buy it immediately.

On amazon I find J Scott Morrison to be the most helpful review of classical recordings.

Yes, sorry, you're right. I confused the two. SFL does have some kooky biases at times.

[The new erato]

Yes, sorry, you're right. I confused the two. SFL does have some kooky biases at times.

Yes, he really should transfer here.