Bach vs. Beethoven!

[George]

Trust me: you're much, much better off to never set foot into the noisome waters of that murky quagmire ........

[Larry Rinkel]

Here is a well considered (and articulated) article that I agree with, as you'd expect, though I don't rate LvB at the level this writer does..

LINK >> Roll Over, Beethoven

There are a lot of misconceptions and inaccuracies within that article.

[orbital]

Yes, in simplifying the question to this practice, I clearly was "voting" for Beethoven.

But naturally, I have no quarrel with anyone whose practice favors Old Bach  0:)

Just a quarrel with anyone blathering about "drama queens"   

You know, in most cases it may have more to do with the listener than anything else.

I can't coherently explain why I listen to Bach more than Beethoven. Perhaps I am a calm person, and Bach's music is more suited to my personality, or perhaps I don't like being challenged by dynamics (of life or music) that much. It can really be so many things, least of all being the composer's fault.

Where a composer fails to talk to us is generally what we seek out in music. It is neither our nor the composer's fault that we don't align all the time. Eventually we sometimes compromise a little to come closer, and if what we gain is worthy of what we let go, then all the better: a new composer in our perimeter

[karlhenning]

Excellent post, orbital!

[Scriptavolant]

I'm really amazed by the way the PhDs around here are unable to grasp the simple metaphorical meaning of the term "impersonality", which has not to be intended in a literal way, of course.
Maybe the reading of Thomas Eliot's "Tradition and the Individual talent" would help. (maybe)

By "impersonality" Eliot meant subjectivity, impartiality, disinterestedness, distance - the control of accidentals, of subjectivity, of mere contingencies. Hence the idea of the objective correlative and its implied contract between writer and reader - that the impenetrably private is inadmissable as art.

from: http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,,1983084,00.html

Eliot thought of this "impersonality" as the main characteristic of Classic Culture, in sharp contrast with Romantic poetics.

..but of course Rachmaninoff is a major composer.. so why arguing which such brilliant Phd-brains? 

[George]

You know, in most cases it may have more to do with the listener than anything else.

I can't coherently explain why I listen to Bach more than Beethoven. Perhaps I am a calm person, and Bach's music is more suited to my personality, or perhaps I don't like being challenged by dynamics (of life or music) that much. It can really be so many things, least of all being the composer's fault.

Where a composer fails to talk to us is generally what we seek out in music. It is neither our nor the composer's fault that we don't align all the time. Eventually we sometimes compromise a little to come closer, and if what we gain is worthy of what we let go, then all the better: a new composer in our perimeter

In that case, we all might benefit from listening to composers we don't like as much as others, as this practice might serve to expand our consciousness.   

[karlhenning]

I'm really amazed by the way the PhDs around here

O wonderful son, that can so astonish a mother!

[Florestan]

but of course Rachmaninoff is a major composer

At last a statement of yours to which I can subscribe...  

[karlhenning]

At last a statement of yours to which I can subscribe...  

Aye, there is good in the lad, yet! 

[Florestan]

I do own quite a bit of LvB & do have favorites when in the mood...
the last 3 piano sonatas, some of the bagatelles...
and a few of the last string quartets....
the rest can be tossed back into the sea, i dont have much use for it really...

James, I have absolutely no problem with you disliking Beethoven. But isn't the highlighted statement likely to hurt the feelings of those of us who do have use for it?

[Haffner]

I do own quite a bit of LvB & do have favorites when in the mood...
the last 3 piano sonatas, some of the bagatelles...
and a few of the last string quartets....
the rest can be tossed back into the sea, i dont have much use for it really...

(meekly) The Missa Solemnis?

[Scriptavolant]

I do own quite a bit of LvB & do have favorites when in the mood...
the last 3 piano sonatas, some of the bagatelles...

I wouldn't deprive myself of the Late three Sonatas as well.

[Kullervo]

James, I have absolutely no problem with you disliking Beethoven. But isn't the highlighted statement likely to hurt the feelings of those of us who do have use for it?

Oh, ignore him. He makes statements like that just to get attention.

[Larry Rinkel]

James, I have absolutely no problem with you disliking Beethoven. But isn't the highlighted statement likely to hurt the feelings of those of us who do have use for it?

Nah. It just makes "us" less likely to take James seriously.

[Florestan]

Are you that hurt over that, really?

Of course I'm not. Your statements on Beethoven say a lot about you and nothing about him. I was just trying to make you be more thoughtful about what you write, 90% of which can be tossed back into the sea, I don't have much use for it, really.  

[Florestan]

but our statements should reflect more about us and our individual tastes, than Beethoven per se, its an opinion poll, and the thread isnt about me...its about who's music we like better; Bach or Beethoven. You're going to get all kinds of different responses, some of them you'll agree with and others you simply won't (like mine), but none of it should hurt your feelings or even be taken to seriously...

I agree. See? You've already begun to post more sensibly.

[Haffner]

Well, this thread had me throwing on the Brandenburg Concertos again (a favorite of mine for about 25 years). So, I must thank James.

[karlhenning]

OTOH, this thread confirms me in a keener interest in Stravinsky than in Bach.

Thank you, James! 

[quintett op.57]

In the first place, James, Stravinsky was always ready with a bon mot, he delighted in witty and sharp comment

Very true
And you like using some of his comments in GMG discussions sometimes, don't you, Karl? 

[karlhenning]

Why, I'm sure I don't know what you mean  0:)