The String Quartet Game (Round Two)

[André]

It is the early bird that catches the worm. Just opened this thread to cast my vote for today, but too late already !

[Mahlerian]

How many votes did you cast for Glass or Nyman?

As many as you cast for Ligeti.  But I certainly have cast more votes for Haydn and Beethoven than you have for Ligeti or Schoenberg.

[Ken B]

As many as you cast for Ligeti.  But I certainly have cast more votes for Haydn and Beethoven than you have for Ligeti or Schoenberg.

Did I post a snarky whine about how others voted?

And btw the Nyman and the Glass are both more modern than the Ligeti. Trying to shut out the modern stuff were you? 

[Mahlerian]

Did I post a snarky whine about how others voted?

And btw the Nyman and the Glass are both more modern than the Ligeti. Trying to shut out the modern stuff were you? 

If Glass or Nyman ever writes a piece on the level of Ligeti's Second Quartet, I'd be happy to vote for it.

[Ken B]

If Glass or Nyman ever writes a piece on the level of Ligeti's Second Quartet, I'd be happy to vote for it.

If they were at the level of Ligeti 2 I wouldn't have nominated them.

WHAT? TASTES DIFFER? WHY WASN'T I TOLD?

If Ligeti ever wrote a Quartet on the level of the Dvorak a lot of us would be happy to vote for it. You are the one imputing motives here.

[Mahlerian]

If they were at the level of Ligeti 2 I wouldn't have nominated them.

WHAT? TASTES DIFFER? WHY WASN'T I TOLD?

You say it's merely personal taste, but Ligeti's Second Quartet is by any measure one of the most widely admired pieces in the genre of the last 50 years.  It's been recorded more often than any quartet by Nyman or Glass, and is probably performed more often too, though I don't have any data at hand to examine on that front.

[Ken B]

You say it's merely personal taste, but Ligeti's Second Quartet is by any measure one of the most widely admired pieces in the genre of the last 50 years.  It's been recorded more often than any quartet by Nyman or Glass, and is probably performed more often too, though I don't have any data at hand to examine on that front.

Interesting. Were we supposed to vote for what we like or what we were told to like?

[Crudblud]

It's a shame. If one of the most popular post-war composers can't get through with one of their finest works, then Schoenberg, Ives, Webern etc. don't stand a chance. The prospect of a finale along the lines of "Haydn vs. Haydn vs. Haydn vs. Haydn vs. Haydn vs. Haydn vs. Beethoven vs. Haydn vs. Mozart vs. Haydn vs. Schubert vs. Haydn vs. Haydn vs. Haydn vs. Dvorak" doesn't make me particularly excited to participate in the rest of the game. I mean, it's a forum game, it doesn't really impact my life if that's how it ends up, but it does seem to be a foregone conclusion.

[Mahlerian]

Interesting. Were we supposed to vote for what we like or what we were told to like?

I don't remember anyone telling me to like the Ligeti quartet, but evidently you do.  When did that happen?

[San Antone]

IIRC, Sammy requested that we not make negative comments about other member's votes.  It's a good rule of thumb.

[Mahlerian]

It's a shame. If one of the most popular post-war composers can't get through with one of their finest works, then Schoenberg, Ives, Webern etc. don't stand a chance. The prospect of a finale along the lines of "Haydn vs. Haydn vs. Haydn vs. Haydn vs. Haydn vs. Haydn vs. Beethoven vs. Haydn vs. Mozart vs. Haydn vs. Schubert vs. Haydn vs. Haydn vs. Haydn vs. Dvorak" doesn't make me particularly excited to participate in the rest of the game. I mean, it's a forum game, it doesn't really impact my life if that's how it ends up, but it does seem to be a foregone conclusion.

Exactly.  It's just frustrating to see music that I love and admire thrown out of consideration as beyond the pale by others.

The split is not between people who only love the traditional (some mostly diatonic/triadic post-tonal examples like Glass aside) and people who only love the modern, but between people who are interested in the whole range of the tradition and those to whom tradition means something closed off to certain developments.

[Sergeant Rock]

It's a shame. If one of the most popular post-war composers can't get through with one of their finest works, then Schoenberg, Ives, Webern etc. don't stand a chance.

Well, they certainly won't have a chance if you quit the game. I love the music of those composers and will be voting for them.

Sarge

[Crudblud]

Well, they certainly won't have a chance if you quit the game. I love the music of those composers and will be voting for them.

Sarge

I'm not intending to quit, just giving my view on the game so far. I might be less active here in the coming weeks, but if that is the case it will be for quite different reasons.

[André]

Exactly.  It's just frustrating to see music that I love and admire thrown out of consideration as beyond the pale by others.

The split is not between people who only love the traditional (some mostly diatonic/triadic post-tonal examples like Glass aside) and people who only love the modern, but between people who are interested in the whole range of the tradition and those to whom tradition means something closed off to certain developments.

This is a very manichaean, B&W view. I listened to both the Adamek and the Ligeti. I didn't dislike them, but didn't have an epiphany either. I don't care one bit if they are « one of the most admired pieces in the genre in the last 50 years ». I had submitted Dusapin, but nobody followed me on that. I didn't make a fuss about it.

[Mahlerian]

This is a very manichaean, B&W view. I listened to both the Adamek and the Ligeti. I didn't dislike them, but didn't have an epiphany either. I don't care one bit if they are « one of the most admired pieces in the genre in the last 50 years ». I had submitted Dusapin, but nobody followed me on that. I didn't make a fuss about it.

The Takemitsu piece, Landscape, was also my submission, and I fully expected that it would not go very far.  I'm even happy that it made it past the mid-round culling.

There are certainly contemporary pieces I can respect but don't really care for, so I understand that, but we've gone two rounds and so far we've seen the elimination of both of Ligeti's quartets and Schoenberg's Fourth.  I'm not very hopeful about the final list.

[Florestan]

These three works will advance:

Dvořák - String Quartet no. 13 in G major, op. 106
Haydn - String Quartet in G major, op. 77/1 "Lobkowitz"
Schubert - String Quartet no. 12 in C minor, D 703 "Quartettsatz"

Splendid!

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

I think by choosing 3 from each list, where in each list there are Haydn and Beethoven (et al) quartets, the repertoire that is recorded more often and that people generally have more exposure to will probably be the top 3 that get selected. This is 3 out of 20, that's a really tough game!

[ComposerOfAvantGarde]

Just another thought: I think the string quartet one of the most controversial repertoires within classical music. I once said that the current era of music is the era where string quartets as a medium for composition and string quartets as an ensemble have probably never been so good. However, the implication that the wealth of string quartets in the last couple of decades can outshine the amazing achievements of composers such as Haydn, Mozat and Beethoven and even all the way up to Bartók and Schoenberg, was probably too bold a statement for some.

[San Antone]

Just another thought: I think the string quartet one of the most controversial repertoires within classical music. I once said that the current era of music is the era where string quartets as a medium for composition and string quartets as an ensemble have probably never been so good. However, the implication that the wealth of string quartets in the last couple of decades can outshine the amazing achievements of composers such as Haydn, Mozat and Beethoven and even all the way up to Bartók and Schoenberg, was probably too bold a statement for some.

And probably not an accurate assessment.  Some voters appear to be biased against older works and towards more contemporary composers.  Ageism does not make for a convincing argument, imo.

[Mahlerian]

Just another thought: I think the string quartet one of the most controversial repertoires within classical music. I once said that the current era of music is the era where string quartets as a medium for composition and string quartets as an ensemble have probably never been so good. However, the implication that the wealth of string quartets in the last couple of decades can outshine the amazing achievements of composers such as Haydn, Mozat and Beethoven and even all the way up to Bartók and Schoenberg, was probably too bold a statement for some.

I think the original list of nominations was a very good reflection of the history and diversity of this genre, while the shortlist that's developing will depressingly homogeneous by comparison if current voting patterns continue.