Thirty three and a third.

[Irons]

I do Irons.  I'm always on the lookout for them (or 99% of other Connoisseur ones the I see.  I seem to recall passing on one once, but that might have been more to do with the condition of it on second thought).  As you know, that's the rub of buying used LPs.  Now that my Okki Nokki is back up and running, I'll give them a clean--saying prayers before, during and afterwards!   

Have you come across any Irons?  If so, which ones?  And how did you like them?

And others here?

PD

Seems your Okki Nokki is earning it's keep! 

I have only two Connoisseur issues but wish I owned more as the sound is very good indeed. One I  find bizarre with the great Polish violinist Wanda Wilkomirska playing the three Delius sonatas in New York.
The other is Moravec. Checking the back cover he recorded for Connoisseur CS 163 Beethoven, CS 1165 Chopin, 1266 Chopin/Beethoven/Debussy, CS 2000 Beethoven and CS 2002 Mozart.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Seems your Okki Nokki is earning it's keep! 

I have only two Connoisseur issues but wish I owned more as the sound is very good indeed. One I  find bizarre with the great Polish violinist Wanda Wilkomirska playing the three Delius sonatas in New York.
The other is Moravec. Checking the back cover he recorded for Connoisseur CS 163 Beethoven, CS 1165 Chopin, 1266 Chopin/Beethoven/Debussy, CS 2000 Beethoven and CS 2002 Mozart.

Cool!  There are some other ones too:

I'll type the list that I can see...
For the stereo ones

CS 163   Beethoven PC No. 4
CS 1065 Chopin - Nocurnes (complete) Volume 1
CS 1165 Volume 2 of the above
CS 1266 Chopin - Ballades (Complete)
CS 1366 Chopin - Preludes, Op. 28 (Complete)
CS 1566 Beethoven - Sonatas Moonlight, Pathetique
CS 1866 Debussy - Five Preludes, Children's Corner Suite, Clair de Lune
CS 2000 Beethoven - Sonatas Appassionata and 32 Variations
CS 2002 Mozart Sonatas Fantasia in C Minor, K. 475/Sonata in C minor, K. 457/Sonata in B Flat Major, K. 570

Believe it or not, I have 3 copies of my Debussy one (in varying conditions)--none totally blemish-free; I'll have to check out the other two copies over the course of the week and see if one of them reigns supreme.  I'll bet that your Ravel/Debussy one is lovely!

I also have that Mozart one on Connoisseur too.

PD

p.s.  By the way and this is a separate issue.  It's been a long time since I've played around with the weight on my tone arm.  At the moment, it seems to be going straight down when I release the cue.  I'm thinking that I've read in the past that it's possibly better to have it pulling a touch towards the outside of the record with the reasoning being that it gets pulled towards the center of the record the further that you go in?  The reason that I'm bringing this up is that it seems that there is a bit more "noise" coming from my left speaker vs. the right.  Would adjusting this help?

[Spotted Horses]

p.s.  By the way and this is a separate issue.  It's been a long time since I've played around with the weight on my tone arm.  At the moment, it seems to be going straight down when I release the cue.  I'm thinking that I've read in the past that it's possibly better to have it pulling a touch towards the outside of the record with the reasoning being that it gets pulled towards the center of the record the further that you go in?  The reason that I'm bringing this up is that it seems that there is a bit more "noise" coming from my left speaker vs. the right.  Would adjusting this help?

This note from Audio Technica may help.

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/support/audio-solutions-question-week-anti-skate-feature-turntable-need-set/

[Irons]

This note from Audio Technica may help.

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/support/audio-solutions-question-week-anti-skate-feature-turntable-need-set/

Excellent advice from Audio Technica.

Back to cleaning LPs. My two penneth worth is it isn't an exact science, quite the opposite. Sometimes if the LP is in good nick I don't clean at all. Very often, if not always, a pressing can be more noisy post cleaning but that is to be expected, no need to panic. It makes perfect sense that dislodging years of embedded micro-muck will make a pressing more noisy, not less. The next step in my cleaning regime is actually playing the record, as the stylus tracks the groove it will push aside the loosened debris. Even after vacuuming first play can be pretty bad but more often then not after a few spins noise is a thing of the past. But not always! If the LP is shot, nothing will bring it back. The only time I clean more then once is if there are bad visual finger marks.

[aligreto]

Excellent advice from Audio Technica.

Back to cleaning LPs. My two penneth worth is it isn't an exact science, quite the opposite. Sometimes if the LP is in good nick I don't clean at all. Very often, if not always, a pressing can be more noisy post cleaning but that is to be expected, no need to panic. It makes perfect sense that dislodging years of embedded micro-muck will make a pressing more noisy, not less. The next step in my cleaning regime is actually playing the record, as the stylus tracks the groove it will push aside the loosened debris. Even after vacuuming first play can be pretty bad but more often then not after a few spins noise is a thing of the past. But not always! If the LP is shot, nothing will bring it back. The only time I clean more then once is if there are bad visual finger marks.

Yes, agreed on the non necessity for overcleaning.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

This note from Audio Technica may help.

https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us/support/audio-solutions-question-week-anti-skate-feature-turntable-need-set/

Thank you for that link.

I have an old Telarc Omnidisc set which I used to adjust the anti-skate device.  One thought that had crossed my mind:  if the original owner didn't have their a.s. adjusted well, could I be hearing their damage to the left channel?

Excellent advice from Audio Technica.

Back to cleaning LPs. My two penneth worth is it isn't an exact science, quite the opposite. Sometimes if the LP is in good nick I don't clean at all. Very often, if not always, a pressing can be more noisy post cleaning but that is to be expected, no need to panic. It makes perfect sense that dislodging years of embedded micro-muck will make a pressing more noisy, not less. The next step in my cleaning regime is actually playing the record, as the stylus tracks the groove it will push aside the loosened debris. Even after vacuuming first play can be pretty bad but more often then not after a few spins noise is a thing of the past. But not always! If the LP is shot, nothing will bring it back. The only time I clean more then once is if there are bad visual finger marks.

Normally I don't clean LPs twice, but these are special ones to me.  I also wondered if perhaps at the time that I hadn't rinsed them well (I have some special rinse solution, but I also rinse the brushes every so often in over the counter distilled water).  I'll try giving them some additional plays.  For what it's worth, the Mozart LP that I had cleaned of his looks to be in much better shape that the Debussy one(s).

Yes, agreed on the non necessity for overcleaning.

Agreed:  please see my comments above.

PD

p.s.  Will give all of them a further listen to soon.

[Spotted Horses]

Thank you for that link.

I have an old Telarc Omnidisc set which I used to adjust the anti-skate device.  One thought that had crossed my mind:  if the original owner didn't have their a.s. adjusted well, could I be hearing their damage to the left channel?

I seem to recall that my Shure V15 Type V cartridge came with a fixture which was intended to adjust the cartridge mounting and a test LP.

Yes, here it is:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294683978544?hash=item449c88ab30:g:HAgAAOSwXI1hlAFr

It seems possible that an old LP might have asymmetric groove wear. Probably advisable to adjust the anti-skate with a pristine LP cut at very high recording velocity at the inner groove.

One nice thing about the Shure V15 Type V was that it had a damper, a little brush mounted in front of the stylus that stabilized the tone arm. An indirect benefit was that it effectively cleaned the record as you were playing it.

Sadly the V15 Type V was discontinued when Shure had difficulty getting the materials required to manufacture it. The last batch was purchased by the U.S. Library of Congress for transcribing archival material in their collection.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I seem to recall that my Shure V15 Type V cartridge came with a fixture which was intended to adjust the cartridge mounting and a test LP.

Yes, here it is:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/294683978544?hash=item449c88ab30:g:HAgAAOSwXI1hlAFr

It seems possible that an old LP might have asymmetric groove wear. Probably advisable to adjust the anti-skate with a pristine LP cut at very high recording velocity at the inner groove.

One nice thing about the Shure V15 Type V was that it had a damper, a little brush mounted in front of the stylus that stabilized the tone arm. An indirect benefit was that it effectively cleaned the record as you were playing it.

Sadly the V15 Type V was discontinued when Shure had difficulty getting the materials required to manufacture it. The last batch was purchased by the U.S. Library of Congress for transcribing archival material in their collection.

I've seen cartridges like that that have a brush in front of it--very handy!    Wonder whether of not they might try bringing those cartridges back considering the vinyl revival?  Several years ago, I ran across this set:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/334306155512?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item4dd6331bf8:g:9PkAAOSwDsth8ZEA&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSprd4IgPv6LBzlteBBg9Pe9Q%252BOW36Tb9R0W1zeWKjxlGGClHcKeK0zohvTG1CB5biDE7a%252FFuLPcZF3bYz%252FW73C84r2uEJtp0aatiVPcZUog3%252FeCUJXNj5M%252FvJ0HAPF6dSD6efibYqdBx27mUnXerIWIrfECnFz%252FCOt2hCKw3A%252F%252BtOJ%252Fj%252FvNOOZzqW%252BQ4UNyFhm0FcmRKjHeRkIruq8DeCW8dzsDfknf8bUItokKyIkLkWHejldbRNtztisB1oIuU9DRSRbfXO%252BJTta5MkOQv9amAhnwHq8gDXB79ckXEHJl3Dhb9MRvmLgajwV9C98gS0atsX8lZcij1aNPdn4q9uXkDUJTLxKTyPMi61monCnwz%252FTF2GXTSCIHNYHaug0MIYQjutWUvmxo18j6nVXQsBqMhTXvAKwIa9vxR3sRUa1x4iJE%252BeaHOJ%252FMO6hZScHWp3bxNI5cNtbl2pzxKZzxED1ULZ9lbLdRZobSzgRrqtpedH57O5qRD1HXg3V4Ih6AoN61oOOKBLe2c9xiScUJjXh9Q3%252FB448XgakI70dBH4nf4O7H1sl0j8hbiZYoN6zNahd5CbJakZJPPw3WED9i71eJtxvmBq0Y%252FOT6lllAWx%252FQvsarhuRdWUkWjLOXn5ql8zk%252B%252F6CLEE%252F1Jtua%252FONNYozlwPsKu%252BmjNjC7NaNHQXm2WrbluhbFLmZBCwf3QeHbKmPreY473YqBeYw%252B%252Fe0RtKCnQDwdWBjt9orBaIY12WplWWPlOtnYLBdgOV%252Bc%252BktrsYXJnCAb4s7tmcohJJKexjcqUdpKkbYk0%252BKEL7ULT%252FCuuUpTAczw4BPQ92GYmnGRUz%252BlDw2ftwkwqpQIrRIg2BsQ%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBM7sSs9tdf

Looking at the sticker, the most I paid for it would have been $8.  Scary to see what one vender has it listed for on eBay!

Which label would you suggest (or record) to try that would fit that recording criteria...Decca?  Or a Mercury?  I didn't notice this before when I played an old Don Henley LP (which bedsides great music also sounded wonderful!).

PD

[Spotted Horses]

Which label would you suggest (or record) to try that would fit that recording criteria...Decca?  Or a Mercury?  I didn't notice this before when I played an old Don Henley LP (which bedsides great music also sounded wonderful!).

PD

It's been a long time since I played an LP. I'd be inclined to pick as recent a record as possible with a loud passage at the very end, to test inner groove distortion. I seem to remember Deutsche Gramophone vinyl being the most problematic in terms of tracking, especially since they seemed to master the digital recordings louder, presumably to emphasize the greater S/N ratio of digital recordings.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

It's been a long time since I played an LP. I'd be inclined to pick as recent a record as possible with a loud passage at the very end, to test inner groove distortion. I seem to remember Deutsche Gramophone vinyl being the most problematic in terms of tracking, especially since they seemed to master the digital recordings louder, presumably to emphasize the greater S/N ratio of digital recordings.

And I'm probably not helping you here in terms of wanting to revisit your albums! 

But seriously, that's a good idea re loud passage at the end as a way of testing things...thanks for the suggestion.

No LPs for me so far today...too busy cooking and trying to get trash together for garbage day!   

PD

[Pohjolas Daughter]

A friend told me today about a new Project turntable--a vertical one!  Looking around, I see that there are some other ones out there.  Has anyone ever tried one before?  Or knows someone who has one?  Just curious. 



PD

[MusicTurner]

That's very peculiar indeed. Visually, it looks nice.  But normally, one would assume that a linear pick up movement, such as some of the old turntable designs (cf. photo of a Bang & Olufsen model below), would provide a more even and stable use of the pick-up, in any vertical design:

[Spotted Horses]

A friend told me today about a new Project turntable--a vertical one!  Looking around, I see that there are some other ones out there.  Has anyone ever tried one before?  Or knows someone who has one?  Just curious. 



PD

This seems bizarre. The rational behind a horizontal turntable is that gravity provides an utterly constant downward tracking force and you only have to worry about compensating the skating effect with a small correction to equalize force on the two sides of the groove. With the vertical arrangement the downward tracking force has to be generated mechanically and gravity applies a skating or anti-skating force which varies as the tonearm moves across the record and which has to be corrected? Strikes me as different for the sake of being different.

To me, in this age of cheap high performance electronics, a linear tracking turntable with an elegant system for keeping the tonearm parallel to the groove seems the be obvious next generation. Probably it's out there, but not weird enough to become popular.

[Irons]

This seems bizarre. The rational behind a horizontal turntable is that gravity provides an utterly constant downward tracking force and you only have to worry about compensating the skating effect with a small correction to equalize force on the two sides of the groove. With the vertical arrangement the downward tracking force has to be generated mechanically and gravity applies a skating or anti-skating force which varies as the tonearm moves across the record and which has to be corrected? Strikes me as different for the sake of being different.

To me, in this age of cheap high performance electronics, a linear tracking turntable with an elegant system for keeping the tonearm parallel to the groove seems the be obvious next generation. Probably it's out there, but not weird enough to become popular.

It is out there. The "Conductor" is featured in the pic below and there have been others. A normal tonearm swinging on an axis is full of compromises which are eliminated by a linear tracker. I have lusted over one for years but the engineering involved scares me. The "Conductor" was developed by the late Len Gregory I mentioned in an earlier post.

[Spotted Horses]

It is out there. The "Conductor" is featured in the pic below and there have been others. A normal tonearm swinging on an axis is full of compromises which are eliminated by a linear tracker. I have lusted over one for years but the engineering involved scares me. The "Conductor" was developed by the late Len Gregory I mentioned in an earlier post.

The engineering doesn't scare me too much. I would put the tonearm on a pivot, just like a conventional tonearm. But the pivot would be on a linear translation stage with a sensor that determines if the pivot has moved ever so slightly away from a perfect 90 degrees. When a deviation is detected, the pivot scoots over until the pivot angle is restored to 90 degrees. The scooting over has to be very steady and well controlled. If they can make a stage that keeps a read head aligned with a hard disk drive spinning at 9500 RPM, they can easily make a stage that keeps a tonearm aligned with a disk spinning at 33 1/3 RPM.  

The picture you attached appears to be along the lines of what I described. The difference is between a lone guru making a prototype and an engineering team developing a design for mass production.

[aligreto]

The interesting discussion above brought to mind a demonstration of a Mag-Lev Audio TT I attended prior to the pandemic. Here are a couple of stock shots:








The platter rises like a UFO and is maintained by the use of magnetic forces.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

This seems bizarre. The rational behind a horizontal turntable is that gravity provides an utterly constant downward tracking force and you only have to worry about compensating the skating effect with a small correction to equalize force on the two sides of the groove. With the vertical arrangement the downward tracking force has to be generated mechanically and gravity applies a skating or anti-skating force which varies as the tonearm moves across the record and which has to be corrected? Strikes me as different for the sake of being different.

To me, in this age of cheap high performance electronics, a linear tracking turntable with an elegant system for keeping the tonearm parallel to the groove seems the be obvious next generation. Probably it's out there, but not weird enough to become popular.

I think that there are a couple of reasons why they came up with something like this (I'll also provide a link to their turntables--the two ones at the bottom are the vertical-type ones.):  the attraction to those who have limited cabinet/table space (You can either put it on a table and it will take up less room or wall-mount it) and secondly, I've seen comments by users who ere particularly attracted to it as they buy a lot of records that are either colored  and/or have pictures on them and would thus be more visible, and thirdly, they also have usb and blu tooth capacities.

https://www.project-audio.com/en/?s=vertical+turntable&asp_active=1&p_asid=1&p_asp_data=1&current_page_id=34246&woo_currency=EUR&qtranslate_lang=0&polylang_lang=en&filters_changed=0&filters_initial=1&asp_gen%5B%5D=title&asp_gen%5B%5D=content&asp_gen%5B%5D=excerpt&customset%5B%5D=product&customset%5B%5D=review&customset%5B%5D=pressrelease&customset%5B%5D=partner&aspf%5Bin_archive__1%5D=1

It is out there. The "Conductor" is featured in the pic below and there have been others. A normal tonearm swinging on an axis is full of compromises which are eliminated by a linear tracker. I have lusted over one for years but the engineering involved scares me. The "Conductor" was developed by the late Len Gregory I mentioned in an earlier post.

Quite snazzy-looking there Irons!

The difference is between a lone guru making a prototype and an engineering team developing a design for mass production.

I know that linear ones aren't anything new.  When did they first come out...1980's ?  Or late '70's?  Don't know.  If I'm recalling correctly, weren't they mass-produced?  But not nearly so much as the more traditional set-up?


PD

[Pohjolas Daughter]

That's very peculiar indeed. Visually, it looks nice.  But normally, one would assume that a linear pick up movement, such as some of the old turntable designs (cf. photo of a Bang & Olufsen model below), would provide a more even and stable use of the pick-up, in any vertical design:

Cool-looking turntable!

And a good point!

As an aside, the Project's ones have both a left-handed set up and one for righties.

The interesting discussion above brought to mind a demonstration of a Mag-Lev Audio TT I attended prior to the pandemic. Here are a couple of stock shots:








The platter rises like a UFO and is maintained by the use of magnetic forces.

Wow!  That must have been quite something to have seen Fergus!   

PD

[aligreto]

Wow!  That must have been quite something to have seen Fergus!   

PD

I think that the expression on this guy's face says it all:






Here is a very short YT video which shows how it operates:


https://www.youtube.com/v/Ky0D00iyHAA

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I think that the expression on this guy's face says it all:






Here is a very short YT video which shows how it operates:


https://www.youtube.com/v/Ky0D00iyHAA

Wow!  Cool!  Wonder what its cat-attractivity value is?     And is that like $30,000 cool?

PD