Thirty three and a third.

[Spotted Horses]

I have to say that the levitated turntable seems very cool, but doesn't solve any problems of a conventional turntable and introduces some new ones. In the video, the levitated disc visibly wobbles when it is lightly tapped, as part of the demonstration. It produces dangerous stray magnetic fields, presumably consumes a large amount of energy. The rotation of the platter is controlled by the magnetic field, which seems tenuous, and you have a strong stray field potentially affecting the magnetic transducer in the cartridge. I'll take a heavy platter on a high quality Swiss-made bearing any day. I'll use the money I saved to buy a Tesla.

[aligreto]

I have to say that the levitated turntable seems very cool, but doesn't solve any problems of a conventional turntable and introduces some new ones. In the video, the levitated disc visibly wobbles when it is lightly tapped, as part of the demonstration. It produces dangerous stray magnetic fields, presumably consumes a large amount of energy. The rotation of the platter is controlled by the magnetic field, which seems tenuous, and you have a strong stray field potentially affecting the magnetic transducer in the cartridge. I'll take a heavy platter on a high quality Swiss-made bearing any day. I'll use the money I saved to buy a Tesla.

Interestingly, once we got over the initial Wow factor and the novelty of it we actually left it alone.

[Irons]

I have this on CD (in a Early Maazel box) and while I admittedly don't much care about these particular pieces, it sure sounds great. The LP also looks great and a beautiful cover. For technical reasons and laziness I never fully got into LPs (as I started listening as a teenager at the fading of the LP era int he late 1980s when CDs were just the thing), but they were and are so much more beautiful and collectible than CDs!

Being appreciably older then yourself I performed a full circle. Collected LPs, then sold them all for  shining new CDs. Sold them and started collecting LPs. Now I do both which is what I should have done in the first place!

I agree. The Maazel issue is all about sonics and the performances are not too shabby either.

[Jo498]

There were about two years ca. 1987-89 when I relied a lot on LPs (and cassettes, incl. precorded ones, so much easier to handle and great in the car, but small, ugly, not great sound) in addition to CDs (which I started buying in winter 1988 as my father bought a CD player for the family before Xmas) but CDs quickly took over, especially as they became more affordable.
I got a little bit into LPs around 2002-06 because of some influence of audiophile friends, nostalgia and cheap LPs on Ebay but eventually I realizied that I lacked the interest and experience (and extra cash) to keep an LP setup. So I got rid of a lot although I still keep around 1 meter of shelf space with them in the vague hope I might get into setting up a turntable again some day.

That sticker in the picture is funny ("Can be removed easily"), I am not sure it it's the original issue from the early 60s or a later one. 24 marks is full price (I think there was a set price until the late 1960s or so) and bloody expensive (considering 1970 or earlier purchasing power). They were still around DM 20 in the 1980s (and CDs were introduced at 30-40 marks in the mid-1980s).

[aligreto]

Here is another interesting article that I recently came across on Discogs.

I have not owned an automatic TT since the early 1970s so I cannot really comment on it.



In Defense of the Automatic Turntable

Davey Ferchow posted January 31, 2022


Automatic turntables and manual turntables have always been on opposing sides of a vinyl community rivalry. For some, the convenience of an auto-return tonearm is a luxury they can't live without. For others, the deliberate act of dropping the needle in the correct groove makes them feel more deeply connected to the music they are spinning. These experiences can have a huge impact on how you listen to music, but the greatest debate here is centred around how each type of turntable will affect sound.

Those in the manual turntable camp claim that an automatic turntable's extra parts have a negative impact on the overall sound. Automatic turntable detractors often equate these models with beginner turntables as the ease of use makes them a popular option for new collectors.

Defenders of the automatic turntable claim that if the turntable is made with quality materials, listeners won't be able to tell the difference. As someone with both types of turntables, I am speaking out in defence of automatic turntables and celebrating the many advantages they offer.


Automatic turntables can help prevent damage.

With the flick of a switch or push of a button, an automatic record player will find that first groove and drop the stylus right where it's supposed to go. With a manual turntable, there is the possibility that you'll miss the groove or accidentally drop the tonearm. In either scenario, you can potentially damage your stylus or records. Automatic turntables help prevent this from happening.


Automatic turntables sound just as good as manual turntables.

Can an automatic turntable hold its own when it goes head-to-head with similarly priced manual turntables? The answer is yes! Since 1991, Pro-Ject has made a name for itself with turntables like the Debut Carbon and Debut Carbon EVO. These beloved turntables are manual, but Pro-Ject has finally developed a way to make an automatic turntable that captures the quality and affordability of their Debut Line.





The new Automat A1 turntable offers much more than an automatic tonearm. The pre-adjusted tracking force and anti-skating mean you won't have to adjust any settings before you plug in and play your first record. This takes the guesswork and careful calculations out of the equation as everything is calibrated for you.

Armed with an aluminium tonearm, integrated amplifier, gold plated RCA connectors, and vibration-absorbing feet, the Automat A1 just may convert some of the automatic naysayers. The resonance-damped wooden chassis, carbon fibre reinforced non-magnetic headshell, and premium semi-symmetrical phono cable ensure that the additional components do not negatively impact the listening experience.


Automatic turntables are ideal for certain environments.

Not having to worry about removing the tonearm once it hits the dead wax comes in handy in certain rooms and situations. If you enjoy listening to music from the comfort of your own bed, you won't have to worry about accidentally dozing off. An automatic record player will prevent your needle from getting locked in the runout groove for hours on end. This is also useful for any record players that may provide musical accompaniment for messy activities like cooking or cleaning. If you're in the zone, it can be nice to have the record player do the work for you when you've reached the end of a side.


Automatic turntables make record collecting accessible.

Like all audio gear, the prices of automatic turntables can range from budget-friendly to bankruptcy-inducing. However, the ease of use has inspired many brands to make entry-level turntables with auto-return arms. Ask a group of collectors what their first turntable was and you'll quickly learn that many of them started with an automatic. That's because choosing the right audio gear can be daunting for the uninitiated. An automatic turntable feels a little more inviting as new vinyl enthusiasts learn how to properly play and care for records.

After they've gotten the hang of it, some collectors begin to climb the gear ladder and invest in pricier turntables. With turntables like the Automat A1, you don't have to spend a lot of money or sacrifice hi-fi sound in the name of convenience.

Published in partnership with Pro-Ject. Images courtesy of Pro-Ject.

[Spotted Horses]

I see no reason an automatic turntable couldn't be as good as a fully manual turntable, as long as the mechanism fully disengages from the tonearm when the record plays. That wouldn't apply to the ones where you would load a stack of records and it automatically drop and plays them in sequence. In that case the stylus angle would change every time another record was dropped on the platter, which would affect playback quality.

[Irons]

Interesting article Fergus, thanks for posting.

The vinyl collecting community are set in their ways so an automatic TT is a hard sell. Hats off to Project for grasping the nettle in designing and marketing one. A progressive company that has brought good quality turntables to a wider market and a main contributor in keeping the vinyl flame burning.

I don't know if a myth or not but there is a deep seated view that simple is best. I loved the big silver fronted Japanese Receiver-Amps of the '70s, they had more switches and knobs then you could throw a stick at! They were very well made, a quality product. Suddenly, seemingly over-night the hi-fi community rejected them and hair-shirt amps sans controls took over. At the time I went from Technics to Sugden. The whole ethos of the two amps were miles apart.
It does depend the market Project are aiming for but to convince serious LP collectors to shun the simplicity mantra and purchase an automatic TT will be difficult, but great they are trying. 

[Valentino]

But you can always get an Accuphase integrated amplifier! They even make a DSP setup moron like me drool.



Just remember to get a RIAA slot in board with yours.

..

Indeed kudos to Project. Manual turntables put off many customers now as it did back when LPs were the format to buy. Now LP is the cool format (or maybe it's MCs? Those born around Y2k move so fast...), but a little bit of convenience never hurt anybody.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

But you can always get an Accuphase integrated amplifier! They even make a DSP setup moron like me drool.



Just remember to get a RIAA slot in board with yours.

..

Indeed kudos to Project. Manual turntables put off many customers now as it did back when LPs were the format to buy. Now LP is the cool format (or maybe it's MCs? Those born around Y2k move so fast...), but a little bit of convenience never hurt anybody.

Can't see the photo all that well, but from what I can see, it looks pretty cool!

Whilst typing the above, I remembered that a friend of mine added a special device onto at least one of his turntables; I forget what it's called (I'll ask him within the next few days), but it's something that you mount onto your turntable.  It automatically picks up the arm at the end of a record.  Found one online described as an "automatic tone arm lifter".  I'll ask him later which one he has used.

PD

p.s.  Here are some of the ones that Music Direct has carried or carries now.  https://www.musicdirect.com/analog-accessories/expressimo-audio-the-lift-tonearm-lifter

[Valentino]

Found the Audio-Technica on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f42cA_nJULA

I admit I have a soft spot for Audio-Technica, still using their since long discontinued AT-OC10 MC pickup.

Picture search the net for Accuphase. If you're still into passive loudspeakers one of  their integrated amplifiers is the last one you'll buy. Keeping with the topic of this thread they have this absolutely stunning C-47 phono/RIAA amplifier which  lets you connect as many as four tone arms. If you have to ask about the price it's not for you.

[Irons]

But you can always get an Accuphase integrated amplifier! They even make a DSP setup moron like me drool.



Just remember to get a RIAA slot in board with yours.

..

Indeed kudos to Project. Manual turntables put off many customers now as it did back when LPs were the format to buy. Now LP is the cool format (or maybe it's MCs? Those born around Y2k move so fast...), but a little bit of convenience never hurt anybody.

But has it a loudness switch? Got to have one of those.

[Valentino]

Of course it has a loudness switch!

[Irons]

Of course it has a loudness switch!

Sorry, I was trying to be ironic. I don't really want a loudness switch.

[Valentino]

It can be quite brutal. The Yamaha variable loudness control is a better idea.

[aligreto]

How interesting to read the last few posts above. Coincidentally, I was on a HiFi playdate yesterday where a good friend of mine was demonstrating a new pair of speakers for me which he had recently purchased. One of the sources used was a Project 10 TT [not automatic]:





Now he was feeding the TT into two different amplifiers, both of which had a phono stage. One of those amplifiers was an early 1980's [I think] Accuphase E206 which had a killer sound [stock photo below]:





The other amplifier that he used in the demonstration was a Sugden A21 which also had a phono stage [stock photo below]:





The Sugden also had a great but different sound, which was the whole point of the exercise.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

How interesting to read the last few posts above. Coincidentally, I was on a HiFi playdate yesterday where a good friend of mine was demonstrating a new pair of speakers for me which he had recently purchased. One of the sources used was a Project 10 TT [not automatic]:





Now he was feeding the TT into two different amplifiers, both of which had a phono stage. One of those amplifiers was an early 1980's [I think] Accuphase E206 which had a killer sound [stock photo below]:





The other amplifier that he used in the demonstration was a Sugden A21 which also had a phono stage [stock photo below]:





The Sugden also had a great but different sound, which was the whole point of the exercise.

It's amazing how much different pieces of equipment can effect the overall sound.  Love the wood on the plinth!

What kind of speakers did he buy and how does he like them so far?  And what did you think of them and how they fit into his system?

PD

[aligreto]

It's amazing how much different pieces of equipment can effect the overall sound. 



PD

As we all know, a "good" system is all about the synthesis between the various components.

Love the wood on the plinth!

That particular TT is both a wonderful looking and wonderful sounding piece of Equipment.

What kind of speakers did he buy and how does he like them so far?  And what did you think of them and how they fit into his system?

He bought a pair of Martin Logan ESL 13A speakers. He is very happy with them, and so he should be. They are a very fine pair of speakers.

Here are a couple of stock photos to give you some idea:







However, like any truly high end component, they are very unforgiving. If you present a rubbish CD or LP to them they will show up all of the faults of a bad recording and throw back rubbish at you.

He offered me CD, Digital Download and Vinyl sources to me. The most successful combination, for me, was the marriage between the vinyl source and the Electro Static speakers. It was truly wonderful but I know that from my own set up.

For his digital downloads he is aiming for a better DAC which will definitely improve his sound in this sound world.

He owns a Primare CDP [I cannot remember the model] but I found it to be very "bright sounding. Another friend of mine also has a Primare CDP and I found the same outcome with that too.

However, he is happy with his choices and that is all that really matters.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

As we all know, a "good" system is all about the synthesis between the various components.




That particular TT is both a wonderful looking and wonderful sounding piece of Equipment.




He bought a pair of Martin Logan ESL 13A speakers. He is very happy with them, and so he should be. They are a very fine pair of speakers.

Here are a couple of stock photos to give you some idea:







However, like any truly high end component, they are very unforgiving. If you present a rubbish CD or LP to them they will show up all of the faults of a bad recording and throw back rubbish at you.

He offered me CD, Digital Download and Vinyl sources to me. The most successful combination, for me, was the marriage between the vinyl source and the Electro Static speakers. It was truly wonderful but I know that from my own set up.

For his digital downloads he is aiming for a better DAC which will definitely improve his sound in this sound world.

He owns a Primare CDP [I cannot remember the model] but I found it to be very "bright sounding. Another friend of mine also has a Primare CDP and I found the same outcome with that too.

However, he is happy with his choices and that is all that really matters.

I've seen electro static speakers before, but never heard anything played using them.  Your friend's are certainly different looking than what I remembered.  Does the sound just come from the bottom part or throughout the whole thing--sorry, dumb question I know, but I don't know how they work.

And, yes, I do well know what you mean about imperfect/badly done/technical limitations recordings that glaringly show all of their short-comings when you put them on a nice system.  Some recordings that I used to enjoy, well, you know the story!  If I really want to listen to them, I'll play them on a different system.

PD

[Irons]

As we all know, a "good" system is all about the synthesis between the various components.




That particular TT is both a wonderful looking and wonderful sounding piece of Equipment.




He bought a pair of Martin Logan ESL 13A speakers. He is very happy with them, and so he should be. They are a very fine pair of speakers.

Here are a couple of stock photos to give you some idea:







However, like any truly high end component, they are very unforgiving. If you present a rubbish CD or LP to them they will show up all of the faults of a bad recording and throw back rubbish at you.

He offered me CD, Digital Download and Vinyl sources to me. The most successful combination, for me, was the marriage between the vinyl source and the Electro Static speakers. It was truly wonderful but I know that from my own set up.

For his digital downloads he is aiming for a better DAC which will definitely improve his sound in this sound world.

He owns a Primare CDP [I cannot remember the model] but I found it to be very "bright sounding. Another friend of mine also has a Primare CDP and I found the same outcome with that too.

However, he is happy with his choices and that is all that really matters.

That is the key. Power amp/speaker are crucial match. Ivor Tiefenbrun, of Linn Sondek, argued that the front end is the most important part of any system and where the greatest investment should be made. A manufacturer of a TT would say that, but he has a point. As you say no system has the ability to convert rubbish....... 

[aligreto]

I've seen electro static speakers before, but never heard anything played using them.  Your friend's are certainly different looking than what I remembered.  Does the sound just come from the bottom part or throughout the whole thing--sorry, dumb question I know, but I don't know how they work.

PD

Hi PD,

Electrostatic speakers work differently when compared with "conventional" cone speakers. They are particularly good at reproducing small ensemble acoustic music and the human voice, I find.

As you know, every conventional speaker has a crossover unit which transfers the relevant frequency to the appropriate speaker cone. And so it is here; the top panel basically receives the mid and the treble frequencies whose that "box" below is basically a subwoofer which receives the bass frequencies.