Cage's 4'33 performed by pianist

[Saul]

You got to hear it to believe it..

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[dtwilbanks]

It's different every time.

[Saul]

It's different every time.

Can 4'33 be copy righted? 

[Bonehelm]

Wow...his fingers must be damn fast...I mean, I didn't even see them move...not even a blur..

[Siedler]

Perhaps I should try a career as a Cage pianist. I'd solely record and perform his masterpiece 4'33.  0:)

[Saul]

Loved the helicopter accompaniment...

[The Mad Hatter]

Can 4'33 be copy righted? 

It is copyrighted. The Cage estate, if memory serves, successfully sued the rock band Korn for plagiarism, when they opened their album Follow the Leader with twelve empty tracks so that the 'first' track was track thirteen.

[greg]

It is copyrighted. The Cage estate, if memory serves, successfully sued the rock band Korn for plagiarism, when they opened their album Follow the Leader with twelve empty tracks so that the 'first' track was track thirteen.

lol, i actually didn't know that album did that.
i don't think it'd be plagiarism if the total amount of time between the first 12 tracks wasn't 4'33".

[The Mad Hatter]

lol, i actually didn't know that album did that.
i don't think it'd be plagiarism if the total amount of time between the first 12 tracks wasn't 4'33".

It's plagiarism if you steal a sentence from a book without crediting it.

The concept of both pieces was silence. Cage had it first, so it was plagiarism. Whether they knew that or not is irrelevant.

[greg]

He did.

oh, no...... now i'm going to be sued by at least 50 million authors! 

[Renfield]

It's plagiarism if you steal a sentence from a book without crediting it.

The concept of both pieces was silence. Cage had it first, so it was plagiarism. Whether they knew that or not is irrelevant.

I think that's taking the concept of "copyright" a bit too far. Under what sort of claim can one copyright "silence"? Even more so, I think Cage's concept was for the listener to focus on the other sounds during the 4'33'' of silence.

Ok, I'm thinking of recording myself breathing, and then sue everyone that issues any recording that I can claim emulates breathing sounds... Or no, wait. I'll record myself tapping my hand on a table, so that any sort of rhythm is copyrighted! Crude generalisation, for the purpose of comedic effect; but isn't copyrighting silence equally absurd?

[greg]

Ok, I'm thinking of recording myself breathing, and then sue everyone that issues any recording that I can claim emulates breathing sounds... Or no, wait. I'll record myself tapping my hand on a table, so that any sort of rhythm is copyrighted! Crude generalisation, for the purpose of comedic effect; but isn't copyrighting silence equally absurd?

not to mention a lot of people get away with copying copyrighted material, such as blank pages....

[Saul]

A poem


4'___________________________
_____________________________
_____________________________
_____________________________
_____________________________
_____________________________
_____________________________
_____________________________
_____________________________
_____________________________33

[The Mad Hatter]

not to mention a lot of people get away with copying copyrighted material, such as blank pages....

I don't think blank pages are copywritten, somehow...

Renfield: I think it's to do with the concept of an entire piece made of non-sound, and there are twelve of them on Follow the Leader. I mean, to look at it the way you're looking at it, the Cage estate could sue anyone who put a rest into their music.

[маразм1]

I already stated several of my ideas including "piano movers' agony". 

Now this piece will be called "sparkle".  An opera singer (mezzo-soprano), will drink 1/2 liter of seltser, and belch a c#, yes c#.

[Renfield]

Renfield: I think it's to do with the concept of an entire piece made of non-sound, and there are twelve of them on Follow the Leader. I mean, to look at it the way you're looking at it, the Cage estate could sue anyone who put a rest into their music.

Not necessarily. The main question is: can copyright protect the absence of sound as music? Is the concept of sustained silence only attributable to John Cage? And also, did those twelve empty tracks perhaps betray the group's intention to start with the number 13, rather than emphasise the silence?

I'm not saying I know the answers, nor that I am some sort of expert on copyright law. But I do find it counter-intuitive, when applied in such a manner.

[Szykneij]

The suit against Korn was because the composing credit on the recording was listed as "Batt/Cage". Cage wasn't even the first to come up with the general idea. Czech composer Erwin Schulhoff wrote a piece consisting only of silence in 1919.

[Renfield]

The suit against Korn was because the composing credit on the recording was listed as "Batt/Cage".

Then this is a different issue entirely, and most likely a fully justified lawsuit, on the part of the Cage estate (if it was done without permission, as seems to be the case).

[greg]

I already stated several of my ideas including "piano movers' agony". 

Now this piece will be called "sparkle".  An opera singer (mezzo-soprano), will drink 1/2 liter of seltser, and belch a c#, yes c#.

i don't think that's possible......
burping has too many overtones to be notated or "burped" at a single pitch..... or maybe it can, i don't know.