Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord

[Mandryka]

This has been driving me nuts. I just can't afford to change or buy anymore. I'm stuck streaming. Amazon quality meanders with harpsichord. It may be bad overall but within that, I find streaming isn't consistent. Apple may be better that way.

Just wait a few more years and you won't notice any differences, and a few years after that you'll be buying your first hearing aid.

[milk]

Just wait a few more years and you won't notice any differences, and a few years after that you'll be buying your first hearing aid.

[prémont]

Just wait a few more years and you won't notice any differences, and a few years after that you'll be buying your first hearing aid.

HEAR HEAR  !!!

[aukhawk]

Where where ??   

I feel sorry for anyone with such hyper-sensitive hearing that they can hear the "lost data" in a (good) lossy stream.  Such hearing is a kind of disability, which I'm glad not to suffer from.

That said, I've given up on Amazon for audio streaming - since they introduced their 'HD' service (which I haven't tried) their standard service seems to have been downgraded to the point where it's audibly bad.  But these old ears are more than happy with Spotify Premium.  Heck, I'd probably be happy with Spotify standard (half the data rate and nothing to pay) if it were not for the intentionally-intrusive ads.

That said again, harpsichord recordings are of course notorious and are routinely used by testers of lossy systems to find the limits of transparency.  But - it seems to me, you have to know what the original (recording) sounds like.  Harpsichord sound varies widely, not only due to the character of the instrument itself, but also the variations in microphone technique.  Any perceived loss or fuzziness in the sound could be down to any one of a number of factors, of which "lost data" is IMHO one of the less likely possibilities.

[milk]

Where where ??   

I feel sorry for anyone with such hyper-sensitive hearing that they can hear the "lost data" in a (good) lossy stream.  Such hearing is a kind of disability, which I'm glad not to suffer from.

That said, I've given up on Amazon for audio streaming - since they introduced their 'HD' service (which I haven't tried) their standard service seems to have been downgraded to the point where it's audibly bad.  But these old ears are more than happy with Spotify Premium.  Heck, I'd probably be happy with Spotify standard (half the data rate and nothing to pay) if it were not for the intentionally-intrusive ads.

That said again, harpsichord recordings are of course notorious and are routinely used by testers of lossy systems to find the limits of transparency.  But - it seems to me, you have to know what the original (recording) sounds like.  Harpsichord sound varies widely, not only due to the character of the instrument itself, but also the variations in microphone technique.  Any perceived loss or fuzziness in the sound could be down to any one of a number of factors, of which "lost data" is IMHO one of the less likely possibilities.

I've got all these playlists set up on Amazon. That's what's keeping me from changing. I have a feeling anything would be better than their quality.

[DavidW]

If you're streaming at 320, it is most likely the master at fault or the recording itself and not the compression.  Harpsichords are notoriously difficult to record well.  Steve Guttenberg actually made a video about it because he was involved in recording harpsichord music once upon a time.  He said place the microphone too far away and you lose the subtle microphonics that give the instrument its character, too close and it is too bright.  Something like that.

Harpsichords just sound much better live.  Not saying all recordings of the harpsichord are poor.  Cymbal crashes are much more problematic for lossy music, and imo at high bitrate even they do fine.  I just don't think it is lossy compression to blame here.

[DavidW]

I've got all these playlists set up on Amazon. That's what's keeping me from changing. I have a feeling anything would be better than their quality.

Well couldn't you just pay extra for amazon's hd upgrade?  Certainly if you listen enough it would be worth the extra amount and if it does sound better then problem solved.  Considering how cheap streaming is compared to purchasing cds, I personally have no issue paying for two premium services (Spotify and Qobuz).

[milk]

Well couldn't you just pay extra for amazon's hd upgrade?  Certainly if you listen enough it would be worth the extra amount and if it does sound better then problem solved.  Considering how cheap streaming is compared to purchasing cds, I personally have no issue paying for two premium services (Spotify and Qobuz).

I have HD. I've had problems for a long time even with that. On harpsichord music especially, the quality of the music will suddenly fall off in the middle of an album. If I change devices, it's back to normal but eventually happens again. I think I'm going back to apple music. I've been 'round and 'round with Amazon but I think there's no fixing it. I don't know why it happens on all my devices and on wifi or 4g. 

[DavidW]

I have HD. I've had problems for a long time even with that. On harpsichord music especially, the quality of the music will suddenly fall off in the middle of an album. If I change devices, it's back to normal but eventually happens again. I think I'm going back to apple music. I've been 'round and 'round with Amazon but I think there's no fixing it. I don't know why it happens on all my devices and on wifi or 4g.

It sounds like it is dynamically changing the bitrate.  Like maybe it takes to 128.  Many streaming services do that.  If you can download it at the highest rate you should be fine (though some services will still try to just stream instead of play the download).  Else if you use Spotify, you can force it to always use very high.  Something that is not true of all services.

[milk]

It sounds like it is dynamically changing the bitrate.  Like maybe it takes to 128.  Many streaming services do that.  If you can download it at the highest rate you should be fine (though some services will still try to just stream instead of play the download).  Else if you use Spotify, you can force it to always use very high.  Something that is not true of all services.

Maybe so. But when I use iTunes, the sound doesn't degrade. W/Amazon, it always degrades at a certain point no matter which device or connection I use. Maybe it's about streaming Amazon US from Japan? But Apple seems fine so I'll change. I've bought so much music from apple it was silly not to have streaming access to my whole library anyway.

Takehisa someone I don't know: Ichise. It's nice to hear Takehisa switching to the fortepiano on the D-major. Apparently, Ichise's involved in many well-known period ensembles but I didn't know her.


Takehisa's Goldberg's: I have to research what the heck he's playing. This harpsichord has some kind of unique registrations. But I'm not sure the recording sound production does him any favors as far as clarity. There are some great contrapuntal moments here, especially with his lute-stop. Hmm...maybe Takehisa is using a pedal-harpsichord.
ETA: definitely pedal. Strange!

[prémont]

Takehisa's Goldberg's: I have to research what the heck he's playing. This harpsichord has some kind of unique registrations. But I'm not sure the recording sound production does him any favors as far as clarity. There are some great contrapuntal moments here, especially with his lute-stop. Hmm...maybe Takehisa is using a pedal-harpsichord.
ETA: definitely pedal. Strange!

The picture doesn't display a pedal harpsichord, so maybe it is just a harpsicord with a 16' stop on the lower manual?

[milk]

The picture doesn't display a pedal harpsichord, so maybe it is just a harpsicord with a 16' stop on the lower manual?

It's a strange sound. I think he uses the same thing on BK1 of his WTC. I thought it was a pedal.
ETA: there are some performances of him playing a pedal harpsichord on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt5MnHuRN6A

[DavidW]

Anyone have any current favorites in rotation for the English suites?

[milk]

Anyone have any current favorites in rotation for the English suites?

I've been meaning to listen to Masaaki Suzuki.

[prémont]

It's a strange sound. I think he uses the same thing on BK1 of his WTC. I thought it was a pedal.
ETA: there are some performances of him playing a pedal harpsichord on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt5MnHuRN6A

You are clearly right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfWTGLBVLhk

[SonicMan46]

Anyone have any current favorites in rotation for the English suites?

Hi David - I have 4 recordings of the English Suites, two on piano (Ivo Janssen box & Murray Perahia) and the two below on harpsichord - have not done any comparisons - attached are some reviews w/ an interesting discussion on the Watchorn recording started by a Don Satz review (Bulldog here in the past), then a reply from Peter W., followed by many more comments - take a look.  Dave

 

[DavidW]

Thanks Milk, I will give Suzuki a listen.

Dave it is crazy to see how Don's review received a personal reply from the performer!  Oh man!  Was that from the Bach Cantatas forum?

[SonicMan46]

Thanks Milk, I will give Suzuki a listen.

Dave it is crazy to see how Don's review received a personal reply from the performer!  Oh man!  Was that from the Bach Cantatas forum?

Yep - I read that review discussion before buying the Peter Watchorn recording some time ago - I believe that Watchorn responded to another recordingof his (cannot remember the one) on Amazon, but vague in my mind - Dave

[amw]

Anyone have any current favorites in rotation for the English suites?

Suzuki, Asperen. Tried the new Belder but not sold on it.

[milk]

Thanks Milk, I will give Suzuki a listen.

Dave it is crazy to see how Don's review received a personal reply from the performer!  Oh man!  Was that from the Bach Cantatas forum?

I think Parmentier has a recording that people seem to like. I have to give it a go too. I don't spend enough time with the English Suites.