Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord

[Antoine Marchand]

Differently to Mandrika, I'd recommend a careful hearing of Cates' set to all those interested in the French Suites (and some extra preludes added to them in this recording), specially if they are not averse to some tempi on the slow side. As Bulldog as pointed out (here and in some reviews), the staggering technique used by Cates is particularly interesting and he gets some almost hypnotic effects. IMO, this interpretation is sort of "midnight listen", where a totally concentrated disposition and a particularly silent room are mandatory to enjoy it.

Additionally, although I don't consider the copy of a French harpsichord used by Cates the most beautiful intrument in the world, IMO it's far of being detrimental to his performance.

[Mandryka]

I think the post I made was inaccurate in fact. It's really a question of slow tempos per se which I find makes Cates's recordings so unattractive. It's the combination of slow tempos and his particular style of rubato, his particular style of tempo-flexibility. That, and occasionally disorienting hesitations (though I've learned that I'm particularly sensitive about that: others may not be so bothered)

Contrast Cates with Leonhardt, who also sometimes takes things slowly in the 1975 recordings, in the allemande and sarabande of  Suite 4 for example.  Leonhardt seems more interesting to me. There's none of the lumbering quality which I find so horrid in some of Cates's slow dances; there's never the sense that the music is almost stationary. Ironically  Leonhardt's performance has for me some of the hypnotic quality that Antoine Marchand finds in Cates.

I'd like to ask those who appreciate Cates's French Suites  where they think he is particularly successful.  I'm quite prepared to believe that I've missed something important. His approach is so personal, so rhythmically  nuanced, and so obviously deeply considered, that I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that there are insights there which have eluded me.

I didn't want to make a big thing of the tone of his harpsichord -- that's not a real important consideration to me. I'll just report that I find both Koopman's and Leonhardt's instrument more attractive, but that's just a matter of taste.

Oh and a final question. I've never heard Leonhardt's 1988 recording which is  listed on bach-cantatas.com. Is it on CD?

[Bulldog]

I think the post I made was inaccurate in fact. It's really a question of slow tempos per se which I find makes Cates's recordings so unattractive. It's the combination of slow tempos and his particular style of rubato, his particular style of tempo-flexibility. That, and occasionally disorienting hesitations (though I've learned that I'm particularly sensitive about that: others may not be so bothered)

Contrast Cates with Leonhardt, who also sometimes takes things slowly in the 1975 recordings, in the allemande and sarabande of  Suite 4 for example.  Leonhardt seems more interesting to me. There's none of the lumbering quality which I find so horrid in some of Cates's slow dances; there's never the sense that the music is almost stationary. Ironically  Leonhardt's performance has for me some of the hypnotic quality that Antoine Marchand finds in Cates.

I'd like to ask those who appreciate Cates's French Suites  where they think he is particularly successful.  I'm quite prepared to believe that I've missed something important. His approach is so personal, so rhythmically  nuanced, and so obviously deeply considered, that I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that there are insights there which have eluded me.

I don't know if there are insights that have eluded you.  In a prior posting, you talked enthusiastically about the "fun" that the music possesses.  As it happens, the Cates interpretation isn't about fun, but emotional depth and incisiveness; that's where the staggering of musical lines is so effective.  I think a listener has to enter the world that Cates offers; if not done, I have no doubt that his performances will not be compelling.

[Mandryka]

It's like a religious cult, this Cates recording.  Neophytes who perform the rite at midnight with an open mind can enter into the new world, a world full of emotional depth and incisiveness.

[Bulldog]

It's like a religious cult, this Cates recording. Neophytes who perform the rite at midnight with an open mind can enter into the new world, a world full of emotional depth and incisiveness.

I do believe you've figured it out.

[jlaurson]

Well, maybe I should give Watchorn another chance. The instrument and sound quality are certainly excellent as always. I've come to really appreciate his WTC.
Are you impressed at all with Van Asperen's French Suites? The original Vater he plays is unlike any other harpsichord I've heard. What a sound! - So charming!
And his performance matches the delicacy and charm of the instrument. I don't know why I struggle with Cates. Everyone loves his French Suites but the recording eludes me. I'm sure the fault is in my own ears. Interesting that Van Asperen, Brookshire and Watchorn all play Vaters or Vater copies on their French Suites. I'd like to find a recording, aside from these, that uses a Vater harpsichord.

For what it's worth, I like Rousset's French Suites the best. Comparatively expansive and rubato-heavy, but not at all slow or lumbering... and supremely rich (too rich for some) recorded on the gorgeous Neuchâtel Ruckers. http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2010/12/best-recordings-of-2010-1.html, http://www.weta.org/oldfmblog/?p=2640

[Geo Dude]

Que expressed an interest in this album, so I'll be providing some preliminary impressions upon first listen:

[asin]B0037W391K[/asin]

I was interested in hearing a recording of the French Suites by a French harpsichordist to supplement my recording by Curtis, and this album fit the budget at around $10 shipped, so I took the risk on an album that didn't have any reviews here or at Amazon.  I'm glad I did, it was love at first listen.  I should note at this point that this is the first recording of the French Suites I've given a serious listen to, so I cannot compare to other interpretations.

First, I'll make some observation on the sound of the harpsichord itself:  On the spectrum ranging from Borgstede's recording of Handel's Harpsichord Suites (the darkest-toned harpsichord I've yet heard) to skeletons copulating on a tin roof, this harpsichord's tone is near the middle of that spectrum, leaning slightly toward the skeletons.  I personally find this a very nice balance.  It's got a nice, bright, and full -- almost piano-like -- top-end that is quite beautiful, and a nice bottom-end.  We're not talking Watchorn level bottom end, but it's certainly respectable and adds just enough 'weight' to the recording to add a bit of drama and a certain regal quality where required, while still allowing Baumont to dance, rather than get bogged down in details trying to seek out those effects.  A fine, fine instrument and in my opinion worth the price of entry just to hear that.

The production is just how I like it:  Nice and dry, very little reverb, but the instrument isn't pushed so far to the front that it becomes offensive.  No complaints here.

Baumont takes a light touch throughout and never seems to lose momentum.  His tempo adjustments are subtle and never seem fussy.  Combine this with the beautiful instrument and you have the makings of an excellent recording.  The two CPE Bach suites used to fill out the disc make an excellent pairing with Bach's suites.  Now if only Baumont would have the sense to record a disc (or integral ) of C.P.E. Bach's keyboard works on harpsichord...

In short, highly recommended to fans of the French Suites.  It's certainly made me into a fan and I will be collecting more recordings in the future.  I can't tell for certain yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes my reference recording.

[Que]

Que expressed an interest in this album, so I'll be provide some preliminary impressions upon first listen:

Very much appreciated!

I did a listen of samples myself (French or German Amazon) and I put it on my wishlist. I was surprised it is - especially considering the bargain price - a recent recording. I believe Baumont uses a French harpsichord but also stylistically this performance sounds very "French" performance - suddenly the connection to Louis Couperin becomes much more apparent. Light touch and subtle, that's Baumont indeed. I already have Alan Curtis and Christophe Rousset (I'm going to revist his French Suites this morning), but I'm going for this one forthwith!

By the sound of it the CPE extras are going to be very worthwhile as well.

Q

[Geo Dude]

Very much appreciated!

I did a listen of samples myself (French or German Amazon) and I put it on my wishlist. I was surprised it is - especially considering the bargain price - a recent recording. I believe Baumont uses a French harpsichord but also stylistically this performance sounds very "French" performance - suddenly the connection to Louis Couperin becomes much more apparent. Light touch and subtle, that's Baumont indeed. I already have Alan Curtis and Christophe Rousset (I'm going to revist his French Suites this morning), but I'm going for this one forthwith!

Glad I could help.  And yes, it is a French harpsichord.  Based on this I'm very much looking forward to Baumont's recording of the Italian Concerto transcriptions which you recommended (also available at a bargain price!).  I got that one based on your recommendation, and it seems that I've returned the favor.

[Leo K.]

I managed to get a hold of Glen Wilson's Book 1, and it's everything I've heard it to be in reviews...incredible.

The prelude and fugue no.8 in Eb minor alone is worth the seeking of this recording. Truly magnificent.

I also love the sound of his harpsichord, with it's airy and delicate tone. Wilson's mercurial playing is such a reward.

[Leo K.]

Que expressed an interest in this album, so I'll be providing some preliminary impressions upon first listen:

[asin]B0037W391K[/asin]

I was interested in hearing a recording of the French Suites by a French harpsichordist to supplement my recording by Curtis, and this album fit the budget at around $10 shipped, so I took the risk on an album that didn't have any reviews here or at Amazon.  I'm glad I did, it was love at first listen.  I should note at this point that this is the first recording of the French Suites I've given a serious listen to, so I cannot compare to other interpretations.

First, I'll make some observation on the sound of the harpsichord itself:  On the spectrum ranging from Borgstede's recording of Handel's Harpsichord Suites (the darkest-toned harpsichord I've yet heard) to skeletons copulating on a tin roof, this harpsichord's tone is near the middle of that spectrum, leaning slightly toward the skeletons.  I personally find this a very nice balance.  It's got a nice, bright, and full -- almost piano-like -- top-end that is quite beautiful, and a nice bottom-end.  We're not talking Watchorn level bottom end, but it's certainly respectable and adds just enough 'weight' to the recording to add a bit of drama and a certain regal quality where required, while still allowing Baumont to dance, rather than get bogged down in details trying to seek out those effects.  A fine, fine instrument and in my opinion worth the price of entry just to hear that.

The production is just how I like it:  Nice and dry, very little reverb, but the instrument isn't pushed so far to the front that it becomes offensive.  No complaints here.

Baumont takes a light touch throughout and never seems to lose momentum.  His tempo adjustments are subtle and never seem fussy.  Combine this with the beautiful instrument and you have the makings of an excellent recording.  The two CPE Bach suites used to fill out the disc make an excellent pairing with Bach's suites.  Now if only Baumont would have the sense to record a disc (or integral ) of C.P.E. Bach's keyboard works on harpsichord...

In short, highly recommended to fans of the French Suites.  It's certainly made me into a fan and I will be collecting more recordings in the future.  I can't tell for certain yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes my reference recording.

Thank you for the review!

[kishnevi]

Ordered this tonight, and will report in due course.

[Coopmv]

Ordered this tonight, and will report in due course.

This set has become very popular on this forum ...

[Que]

This set has become very popular on this forum ...

With Wilson and Dantone on the shelves and being through dozens of WTC's in the past, I'm not easily convinced there is another WTC for me our there! Though Schornsheim's and Belder's are on the "check list".

Going through the Amazon samples fo the Schornsheim as I write. Some impressions -taking in mind the restrictions of sampling - very pretty & propelling playing, as I know Schornsheim. Interesting and varied use of the different registers. But ehh...doesn't anyone feel it sounds - a times - a bit overly fussy and laborious? It doesn't grab me emotionally - I guess sofar the magic doesn't come through... Saw it's terribly cheap - that's good in any case!

Q

[Geo Dude]

I have the Curtis and Watchorn sets of the English Suites.  Any recommendations for a third set?

EDIT:  Not interested in Rousset.  I prefer a drier recording.

[prémont]

I have the Curtis and Watchorn sets of the English Suites.  Any recommendations for a third set?

Leonhardt (either the Virgin or the Sony - or better: Both) - self-recommending

van Asperen (Brilliant) - doesn´t (compared to other available sets) differ that much from Curtis, whom I marginally prefer to van Asperen

Rannou (ZigZag) - too French to some but listenable, contrary to Rousset

[milk]

This set has become very popular on this forum ...

I'm wondering if anyone likes the Christine Schornsheim recording.
As for the English Suites, many people recommended Edward Parmentier.
This turned out well for me!

[Geo Dude]

As for the English Suites, many people recommended Edward Parmentier.
This turned out well for me!

Unfortunately, it seems to be out of print.

[Coopmv]

With Wilson and Dantone on the shelves and being through dozens of WTC's in the past, I'm not easily convinced there is another WTC for me our there! Though Schornsheim's and Belder's are on the "check list".

Going through the Amazon samples fo the Schornsheim as I write. Some impressions -taking in mind the restrictions of sampling - very pretty & propelling playing, as I know Schornsheim. Interesting and varied use of the different registers. But ehh...doesn't anyone feel it sounds - a times - a bit overly fussy and laborious? It doesn't grab me emotionally - I guess sofar the magic doesn't come through... Saw it's terribly cheap - that's good in any case!

Q

Q,   How do you like the WTC's by Kenneth Gilbert?

[Geo Dude]

Leonhardt (either the Virgin or the Sony - or better: Both) - self-recommending

van Asperen (Brilliant) - doesn´t (compared to other available sets) differ that much from Curtis, whom I marginally prefer to van Asperen

Rannou (ZigZag) - too French to some but listenable, contrary to Rousset

Thanks.  Based on samples I'm thinking of waiting a while and then buying Rannou's box set.

By the way, do you find Rousset's set unlistenable due to the acoustics or for other reasons?