Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord

[Antoine Marchand]

Right, my comment was a little too vague...
- About Staier, the main problem is the instrument. This enormous machine (on which Staier has recorded 3 CDs already, so he must love it) is monstruous, and Bach certainly never played on such a harpsichord, and never composed the Goldbergs for that kind of instrument. The music, played on this, is butchered, you can't even hear everything when he plays on some stops (the reverbaration adds to this blurry impression). Var. 25 in particular is really painful.

I agree with your comments about Staier's interpretation, but I think your statement regarding the instrument could be a bit excessive considering the historical information available. After all is a well known fact that German harpsichords tended to be quite more robust (both in sound and construction) than the contemporary Italian and French instruments. Additionally, Hyeronimus Albrecht Haas was a famous builder and exact contemporary of Bach and Bach was his entire life a man very interested in the technical aspects of his profession. BTW, IMO the principal problem with Staier's recording (beyond the interpretation) is the place where the microphones were put (very close to the instrument) and the reverberant venue.

P.S.: BTW, welcome aboard, Discobole! 

[milk]

Right, my comment was a little too vague...
- About Staier, the main problem is the instrument. This enormous machine (on which Staier has recorded 3 CDs already, so he must love it) is monstruous, and Bach certainly never played on such a harpsichord, and never composed the Goldbergs for that kind of instrument. The music, played on this, is butchered, you can't even hear everything when he plays on some stops (the reverbaration adds to this blurry impression). Var. 25 in particular is really painful.
- About Rannou, I think she goes too far in ornamentation, this is not ornamentation anymore as she sometimes doesn't even play the written notes but only notes around. But the real problem is that her ornamentation lacks imagination. She frequently plays intervals as scales (say from A to A she'll go A-B-C-D etc.), that is the lowest point in ornamentation, in my opinion. And the repetitions are only excuses to ornament again, differently, as if she could'nt choose in the end what was better. This is not what da capos are supposed to be, you should feel something being built, a musical speech.

Things are very different with great recordings, as by Leonhardt or Hantaï (even if I prefer the latter's first account) : ornamentation is imaginative but never against the score, the speech.
The record I like the most is probably one of the more ornamented, by Blandine Verlet (Astrée, 1991).

Thanks for explaining this. As far as I can follow your comments, I can see what you mean about Staier. I do like it and have spent a lot of time with it, but it is a bit of a mess sometimes. I wouldn't offer it to a friend as an introduction to the Goldbergs on Harpsichord as I do with Hantai. I'm still interested in what people think of the Rannou. I really enjoy it.  I always wonder if more musical knowledge will make me come to dislike music I now enjoy. There's someone who posted lengthy attacks on Shoonderwoerd's Beethoven cycle - recordings I really enjoy. I couldn't understand half of what they were saying. I kept thinking: maybe if I understood this I'd hate it as much as he/she does. This will sound goofy, but maybe it's my affinity for psychedelic music that makes me like the Staier.

[milk]

Right, my comment was a little too vague...
- About Staier, the main problem is the instrument. This enormous machine (on which Staier has recorded 3 CDs already, so he must love it) is monstruous, and Bach certainly never played on such a harpsichord, and never composed the Goldbergs for that kind of instrument. The music, played on this, is butchered, you can't even hear everything when he plays on some stops (the reverbaration adds to this blurry impression). Var. 25 in particular is really painful.
- About Rannou, I think she goes too far in ornamentation, this is not ornamentation anymore as she sometimes doesn't even play the written notes but only notes around. But the real problem is that her ornamentation lacks imagination. She frequently plays intervals as scales (say from A to A she'll go A-B-C-D etc.), that is the lowest point in ornamentation, in my opinion. And the repetitions are only excuses to ornament again, differently, as if she could'nt choose in the end what was better. This is not what da capos are supposed to be, you should feel something being built, a musical speech.

Things are very different with great recordings, as by Leonhardt or Hantaï (even if I prefer the latter's first account) : ornamentation is imaginative but never against the score, the speech.
The record I like the most is probably one of the more ornamented, by Blandine Verlet (Astrée, 1991).

There's something Hantai does on the first variation (Mirare) that blows me away every time I hear it. I have to go back and listen again to find out if I'm hearing it correctly. It's as if he fools the ears - that he suggests something that is somehow more than what he actually plays.

[prémont]

- About Staier, the main problem is the instrument. This enormous machine (on which Staier has recorded 3 CDs already, so he must love it) is monstruous, and Bach certainly never played on such a harpsichord, and never composed the Goldbergs for that kind of instrument. -

You may be wrong. Quite another matter is whether we think the Goldberg´s are well served by this instrument or not.

About Rannou, I think she goes too far in ornamentation, this is not ornamentation anymore as she sometimes doesn't even play the written notes but only notes around. But the real problem is that her ornamentation lacks imagination. She frequently plays intervals as scales (say from A to A she'll go A-B-C-D etc.), that is the lowest point in ornamentation, in my opinion. And the repetitions are only excuses to ornament again, differently, as if she could'nt choose in the end what was better. This is not what da capos are supposed to be, you should feel something being built, a musical speech.-

I have not heard her Goldbergs. But I have enjoyed her French and particularly English suites. Do you think her ornamentation is overdone in these suites too?

And how do you think Koopman´s well known opulent ornamentation compares to Rannou´s ornamentation in her Goldbergs?

[Leon]

Lately I happened to acquire this recording:

[asin]B001UL3ZL4[/asin]

Isode Ahlgrimm: Die Kunst Der Fuge

I am still getting acquainted with it and have also read some reviews, but something strikes me as odd, a hesitant quality in her playing, about the recording for which I cannot put my finger on at the moment.  Maybe more listening will bring it into better focus.

I'd be curious to hear comments from the GMG community posting on this thread.

[milk]

Right, my comment was a little too vague...
- About Staier, the main problem is the instrument. This enormous machine (on which Staier has recorded 3 CDs already, so he must love it) is monstruous, and Bach certainly never played on such a harpsichord, and never composed the Goldbergs for that kind of instrument. The music, played on this, is butchered, you can't even hear everything when he plays on some stops (the reverbaration adds to this blurry impression). Var. 25 in particular is really painful.
- About Rannou, I think she goes too far in ornamentation, this is not ornamentation anymore as she sometimes doesn't even play the written notes but only notes around. But the real problem is that her ornamentation lacks imagination. She frequently plays intervals as scales (say from A to A she'll go A-B-C-D etc.), that is the lowest point in ornamentation, in my opinion. And the repetitions are only excuses to ornament again, differently, as if she could'nt choose in the end what was better. This is not what da capos are supposed to be, you should feel something being built, a musical speech.

Things are very different with great recordings, as by Leonhardt or Hantaï (even if I prefer the latter's first account) : ornamentation is imaginative but never against the score, the speech.
The record I like the most is probably one of the more ornamented, by Blandine Verlet (Astrée, 1991).

I'm curious what you think of Suzuki's partitas.

[milk]

I just re-listened to the first partita by Suzuki, then by the (usual) standard reference Scott Ross (Erato), then in my favourite version by Gustav Leonhardt (EMI/Virgin), then by Suzuki again.

Suzuki's job is not bad at all, the sound is great, the harpsichord is beautiful, the playing (articulation, ornamentation) is good. But this version is still far inferior to the two others I've just heard too : as his conducting in his cantatas, Suzuki's playing is actually quite plain, not boring nor dull but flat. As I said, the ornamentation is simple, discreet, but the problem is not about quantity, it's about what it is used for : I don't hear Suzuki using ornamentation as part of the music, as a tool for reinforcing the speech. Listen to Ross, he ornaments even more than Suzuki, but how it is part of the musical flow is impressive.
So, behind a little ornamentation and some changes between keyboards and stops, Suzuki doesn't really sound interesting. The fact that he's slower than others might be a part of the problem too, but you can be slow and interesting, Suzuki is not only slow, he's quite mechanical... There is something very difficult to render in Bach (actually, I tend to believe that nobody mastered this as well as Leonhardt, until now), a sort of internal movement, which I can't find in Suzuki's recording.
Finally, I don't see any reason to play the repeats if the performer can't think of a way to make it interesting. In short, if you have nothing to say, say it just once .

I'm quite sure a comparison between Suzuki and Alard or Weiss would bring me to the same conclusion.

Actually, I'm having a problem getting a hold of the Ross. So you recommend the Alard?

[Antoine Marchand]

Whose? Ross'?

Alard.

[kishnevi]

My Presto order arrived yesterday when I was at work, so I sat down this morning and listened to this, as there had been at least one request for a debriefing


Sonics--high quality--Performance--generally inclined to the lyrical mode, but not afraid of peppy passages.  Sometimes odd rubato, etc. was invoked, however.  The music of the GVs is not imprinted on my aural memory to the point that I could pick out what she was or was not doing in regards to ornamentation.  Overall first impression was favorable, but I don't expect this one to be my desert island choice.

(Harpsichord performance I'm comparing this against, in order of preference:  Rousset, Staier, Egarr.  Rannou probably falls at the same level or slightly below Staier.)

(also posting this to the Goldberg Variations thread)

[Mandryka]

Watchorn's recording of the toccatas is jaw-dropping, though there is a bit much reverb. (I like my recordings to be as dry as Don does.)  Strongly recommended for anyone interested in those works.  It's the first time I've really been able to connect with some Bach works on harpsichord.  Any suggestions for a recording I should pair with it?

Agreed totally and in bwv 912 especially. There's another recording of that Toccata by Blandine Verlet, on a Philips LP and never as far as I know on CD, which I also like. But I much prefer Watchorn's. One of the many things  I like about Watchorn's  is that it's not fast and furious: he takes the time to get to the feeling in the music. And that it sounds spontaneous.

The Verlet has been transferred by an amateur here. It's in Volume 2 there -- even though it's not mentioned in the blog. It's well worth hearing (I haven't heard her second record of it, but would like to)

http://takecare-maready.blogspot.com/2010/12/toccatas-of-js-bach-blandine-verlet.html

[milk]

I just re-listened to the first partita by Suzuki, then by the (usual) standard reference Scott Ross (Erato), then in my favourite version by Gustav Leonhardt (EMI/Virgin), then by Suzuki again.

Suzuki's job is not bad at all, the sound is great, the harpsichord is beautiful, the playing (articulation, ornamentation) is good. But this version is still far inferior to the two others I've just heard too : as his conducting in his cantatas, Suzuki's playing is actually quite plain, not boring nor dull but flat. As I said, the ornamentation is simple, discreet, but the problem is not about quantity, it's about what it is used for : I don't hear Suzuki using ornamentation as part of the music, as a tool for reinforcing the speech. Listen to Ross, he ornaments even more than Suzuki, but how it is part of the musical flow is impressive.
So, behind a little ornamentation and some changes between keyboards and stops, Suzuki doesn't really sound interesting. The fact that he's slower than others might be a part of the problem too, but you can be slow and interesting, Suzuki is not only slow, he's quite mechanical... There is something very difficult to render in Bach (actually, I tend to believe that nobody mastered this as well as Leonhardt, until now), a sort of internal movement, which I can't find in Suzuki's recording.
Finally, I don't see any reason to play the repeats if the performer can't think of a way to make it interesting. In short, if you have nothing to say, say it just once .

I'm quite sure a comparison between Suzuki and Alard or Weiss would bring me to the same conclusion.

I think I understand what you mean about "internal movement." It seems to me that Ross and Leonhardt have something in common but I can't say what that is.
It's intangible to me at the moment. I'm wondering who your favorite performers of the French Suites are seeing as the music is so different. What is it that's needed to bring alive the dances in the French and who succeeds?

[Que]

Agreed totally and in bwv 912 especially. There's another recording of that Toccata by Blandine Verlet, on a Philips LP and never as far as I know on CD, which I also like. But I much prefer Watchorn's. One of the many things  I like about Watchorn's  is that it's not fast and furious: he takes the time to get to the feeling in the music. And that it sounds spontaneous.

The Verlet has been transferred by an amateur here. It's in Volume 2 there -- even though it's not mentioned in the blog. It's well worth hearing (I haven't heard her second record of it, but would like to)

http://takecare-maready.blogspot.com/2010/12/toccatas-of-js-bach-blandine-verlet.html

If you are talking about Watchorn Toccatas on Haenssler - I got it at Don's (bulldog) recommendation. And it is quite good, but still left me unsatisfied. I think it is too rigid and a tad unimaginative. I found that Leon Berben Toccatas' set on Ramee (a 2CDset with the Toccatas for organ & harpsichord) surpasses it in quite comfortably in those respects, without lacking intellectual rigour. But Berben is (a.o.) a Koopman student and you can kind of tell, so maybe not to everyone's taste... (ornamentation!) I did an on line comparative listening at the time, and 2nd came Van Asperen's Teldec recording (slightly ahead of his EMI) I'd love to have that one as well. The Fanfare reviewer has slight issues with Berben's harpsichord Toccatas and prefers Colin Tilney!



Q

[Scion7]

I have the French & English Suites (complete) on vinyl (MHS) by Zuzana Ruzicková:



These were recorded circa 1967 - released initially on Erato, Suraphon.

Until this morning, I really had not read much about her - the MHS notes only had a perfunctory mention, concentrating on the history of the Suites. 
There was more info on another MHS release I have of her doing various BACH pieces - the Chromatic Fantasia and Fugue, the Toccata and Fugue in c, etc.

She's 83+ yrs old now, but has quite a history:

Zuzana Ruzickova was born on 14 January 1927 in the city of Plzen in western Bohemia. Her musical ability and predilection for Bach were apparent from an early age, and she prepared for admission to Wanda Landowska's classes at Saint-Leu-la-Forêt near Paris. The opportunity to study abroad soon became an impossibility with the German occupation of Czechoslovakia in 1938, and in January 1942 she and her family were interred at the Terezin ghetto. After the death of her father and grandparents at Terezin, she was sent to Aushwitz along with her mother. In 1944 they were both sent to Hamburg as forced laborers, and later spent the final days of the war interred at the Bergen-Belson concentration camp. Upon her recovery she was determined to resume her musical education and studied piano with Bohdan Gsölhofer in Plzen. From 1947-51 she attended the Academy of Performing Arts in Prague where her professors included pianists Albín Síma, Frantisek Rauch and harpsichordist Oldrich Kredba. At this time she decided to specialize in the interpretation of early music and gave her first harpsichord recital in 1951. In 1956 she won the International Music Competition in Munich and accepted a scholarship from jury member Marguerite Roesgen-Champion to continue her harpsichord studies in Paris.
Her success at the Munich competition marked the beginning of an international career. Since that time she has performed regularly throughout Europe and has made repeated visits to Japan and the United States. She has performed at Bach Festivals in Leipzig, Stuttgart, Heidelberg, Ansbach, Frankfurt, Schaffhausen, Bath and Oregon. In 1962 she co-founded the Prague Chamber Soloists with conductor Václav Neumann and in 1963 she formed a very successful duo with violinist Josef Suk. Other chamber music partners have included János Starker, Pierre Fournier, Jean-Pierre Rampal, Aurèle Nicolet and Maxence Larrieu. She has also worked with noted conductors including Serge Baudo, Paul Sacher, Herbert Blomstedt, Libor Pe?ek, Neville Marriner and Helmut Rilling. Her recorded repertoire is vast, spanning works from the English virginalists through those by modern composers such as Martin?, Poulenc, Falla and Frank Martin. The music of Bach, however, has always remained central to her art, culminating in an integral edition of his solo harpsichord works published by the French label Erato in 1975. Contemporary composers have also dedicated works to her, including Jan Rychlík's Hommagi clavicembalistici (1964), and she has premiered works by Emil Hlobil, Hans-Georg Görner and Elizabeth Maconchy. For 54 years she was married to the outstanding composer Viktor Kalabis (1923-2006), and she inspired him to compose several significant works for harpsichord: Six Two-Part Canonic Inventions (1962), Aquarelles (1979), Preludio, Aria e Toccata (1992), and the magnificent Concerto for Harpsichord and Strings (1975). Her career as an educator began at the Academy of Performing Arts in 1951, but only after the fall of communism was she finally given the title professor in 1990. She also established a harpsichord class at the Music Academy in Bratislava where she was guest professor from 1978-82. For twenty-five years she gave master classes in Zürich, with other classes taking place in Stuttgart, Kraków, Budapest, Riga and Tokyo. Her many students include Jaroslav T?ma, Giedré Luk?aité-Mrázková, Anikó Horváth, Borbála Dobozy, Sylvia Georgieva and Monika Knoblochová.
Today she is retired from performing and teaching but is still very active in Czech musical life. She is president of a foundation to promote the work of her husband Viktor Kalabis and serves as vice-president for the Prague Spring International Competition Committee. She is also on the advisory boards of the Czech Chamber Music Society and the Concertino Praga International Competition. She has not forgotten her experiences during the war and actively supports the Hans Krása Initiative, and as a participant in the Terezin Initiative, she often speaks about her experiences. She was also instrumental in establishing a memorial for Freddy Hirsch, a young man responsible for saving the lives of countless children at Terezin and Aushwitz.

[Geo Dude]

When it comes to Bach, Olivier Baumont has made a career out of playing programs that consist primarily of early works and focus on bringing out the beauty and profundity in what might otherwise be considered non-essential repertoire.  (His recording of the French Suites is a notable exception.)  He does the same here, bringing out wonderful, unexpected qualities in four relatively 'minor' harpsichord suites.  This recording – like all of his Bach that I've heard -- is love at first listen.

Most of it, at least.  Recordings on clavichord of a few preludes from the WTC and a set of three minuets are interspersed with the material for harpsichord and I do not find them particularly impressive.   When it comes to the harpsichord suites, however, Baumont is well...Baumont.  He knows how to be a speed demon when necessary, also manages to moderate tempos when needed without the performance coming across as merely 'middle of the road', and most of all he dances.  I cannot think of any other harpsichordist that manages to generate such a well-flowing rhythm and make it sound like such an easy task.

As I stated earlier, I am not as impressed by the pieces on clavichord.  At this point I'm unable to come to like the clavichord's spongy tone and this recording is of no assistance to me in this matter.  In addition to the spongy tone that seems to be a characteristic of the clavichord this instrument is rather bland and colorless.  The clavichord pieces being juxtaposed directly with the harpsichord suites only serve to make the contrast between the instruments stronger.   As a result of this, I had a difficult time focusing on his interpretation.  That said, in spite of the failings of the clavichord this recording was love at first listen and I highly recommend it for the harpsichord suites, if nothing else.  Given that it can be had for under $7 shipped off the marketplace, there's no reason not to get it.

[milk]

When it comes to Bach, Olivier Baumont has made a career out of playing programs that consist primarily of early works and focus on bringing out the beauty and profundity in what might otherwise be considered non-essential repertoire.  (His recording of the French Suites is a notable exception.)  He does the same here, bringing out wonderful, unexpected qualities in four relatively 'minor' harpsichord suites.  This recording – like all of his Bach that I've heard -- is love at first listen.

Most of it, at least.  Recordings on clavichord of a few preludes from the WTC and a set of three minuets are interspersed with the material for harpsichord and I do not find them particularly impressive.   When it comes to the harpsichord suites, however, Baumont is well...Baumont.  He knows how to be a speed demon when necessary, also manages to moderate tempos when needed without the performance coming across as merely 'middle of the road', and most of all he dances.  I cannot think of any other harpsichordist that manages to generate such a well-flowing rhythm and make it sound like such an easy task.

As I stated earlier, I am not as impressed by the pieces on clavichord.  At this point I'm unable to come to like the clavichord's spongy tone and this recording is of no assistance to me in this matter.  In addition to the spongy tone that seems to be a characteristic of the clavichord this instrument is rather bland and colorless.  The clavichord pieces being juxtaposed directly with the harpsichord suites only serve to make the contrast between the instruments stronger.   As a result of this, I had a difficult time focusing on his interpretation.  That said, in spite of the failings of the clavichord this recording was love at first listen and I highly recommend it for the harpsichord suites, if nothing else.  Given that it can be had for under $7 shipped off the marketplace, there's no reason not to get it.

I wonder what you think of Levin's WTC sets. He mixes it up between harpsichords, clavichord, fortepiano and organ. Wonderful recordings!

[Mandryka]

I wonder what you think of Levin's WTC sets. He mixes it up between harpsichords, clavichord, fortepiano and organ. Wonderful recordings!

That was also something that Chorzempa did -- in a recording I have never been able to find at a price I can afford.

[Geo Dude]

I wonder what you think of Levin's WTC sets. He mixes it up between harpsichords, clavichord, fortepiano and organ. Wonderful recordings!

Sounds like a bit of an odd duck recording to me, but I'll put it on the wish list.

[Geo Dude]

In a bit of an embarrassing moment today, I accidentally threw on Rannou's second disc of French Suites by mistake due to not paying enough attention to the track listing or disc.  I meant to grab the second disc of the English Suites.  It was a bit embarrassing because I was two-thirds of the way through the disc before realizing it.   (In my defense, I'm not intimately familiar with either the English or French Suites.)  I was wondering why the hell the English Suites suddenly sounded more streamlined and less complex...

In any case, I admit to this because the accident allowed me to make a couple of unbiased observations:  First, I did find myself agreeing with Bulldog that she tends to be a bit shallow in the slow movements.  I can't describe it exactly...it just feels like there's something there in those slow movements that she's just not allowing the listener (me, at least) to connect with.  I found her excellent in the fast movements, but the harpsichord is just a bit on the bright side for my tastes.  I still enjoy the recordings (I greatly enjoyed the first disc of the English Suites) but it's difficult to listen straight through to the end.  I'll probably adjust to it in time, though.  I hope so at least, this seems like a great box and I think I'll get many hours of enjoyment out of it.

In any case, further listening will be needed, but I don't think she'll be overthrowing Baumont as my favorite in the French Suites.  I definitely need to hear the Cates recording, though.

[Bulldog]

In any case, I admit to this because the accident allowed me to make a couple of unbiased observations:  First, I did find myself agreeing with Bulldog that she tends to be a bit shallow in the slow movements.  I can't describe it exactly...it just feels like there's something there in those slow movements that she's just not allowing the listener (me, at least) to connect with.  I found her excellent in the fast movements, but the harpsichord is just a bit on the bright side for my tastes.  I still enjoy the recordings (I greatly enjoyed the first disc of the English Suites) but it's difficult to listen straight through to the end.  I'll probably adjust to it in time, though.  I hope so at least, this seems like a great box and I think I'll get many hours of enjoyment out of it.

In any case, further listening will be needed, but I don't think she'll be overthrowing Baumont as my favorite in the French Suites.  I definitely need to hear the Cates recording, though.

And don't forget the Alan Curtis set.  Actually, it's not a set, but three separate discs that also include all the English Suites.

[Geo Dude]

And don't forget the Alan Curtis set.  Actually, it's not a set, but three separate discs that also include all the English Suites.

I have all three parts of the Curtis 'set.'  Unfortunately, I'm still working on adjusting to the sound of the harpsichord, so I can't judge the quality of the interpretation yet.  That may sound strange, but once in a while I run across a harpsichord recording with a sound that doesn't quite click with me for reasons I can't put my finger on.  The Curtis recordings are one of those, Suzuki's recordings of the Partitas are another.