Bach on the harpsichord, lute-harpsichord, clavichord

[prémont]

Thanks Mandryka for mentioning Tilney' s French suites, which I need to get, again.

Another recording on clavichord is this by Thurston Dart;

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Ismeron/JMSCD4

which many years ago was my first exposure to the French suites. Intimate but without repeats.

I consider Cera's French suites a hit or miss. Particularly I find his reflective allemandes totally besides the point.

As to John Paul's recordings on "lute-harpsichord" I tend to agree with the reviewer here:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/July10/Bach_LEMS8066.htm

[Jo498]

The problem with clavichord is that I "have been burned" by almost all the recordings I tried (most famously the WTC II with Kirkpatrick) and I have a limited budget (financial, temporal and neural...) for to keep trying lots of things. So it's not really true that I am particularly interested in clavichord recordings. I am interested in the Levin WTC not mainly because it includes clavichord but because it is supposed to be interestingly different and seems to be well regarded by some people.

As for the French Suites, I am quite happy with Koopman, probably happier than with my 2,5 recordings of the English suites (+ another bunch on piano: Schiff, Perahia, Gould, 2+3 with Pogorelich and a few singles). Koopman's sound very nice (not percussive, but not too soft either), playful (with some additional ornaments but no exaggeration). I could imagine more "serious" interpretations but I am not so sure that those would fit the music. These are more playful and relaxed than the English suites. I find the English suites sometimes a little on the overly serious, not to say dour side. Actually, I could maybe need a more playful recording of the English suites before a more massive one of the French...

[Mandryka]

Thanks Mandryka for mentioning Tilney' s French suites, which I need to get, again.

Another recording on clavichord is this by Thurston Dart;

http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/r/Ismeron/JMSCD4

which many years ago was my first exposure to the French suites. Intimate but without repeats.

I consider Cera's French suites a hit or miss. Particularly I find his reflective allemandes totally besides the point.

As to John Paul's recordings on "lute-harpsichord" I tend to agree with the reviewer here:

http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2010/July10/Bach_LEMS8066.htm

If I remember right Dart's recording doesn't sound so good, but I know that many people think highly of it so I should listen again.

I wouldn't say that Cera's allemandes are all reflective. Some are, but they become less so as you move through the suites. In fact I think they tend to reflect (!) his view that the suites are a representation in music of a journey from trouble through prayer to salvation. I like it when performers dream up that sort of narrative for cycles - as with Egarr's English Suites. I think, basically, I'm more of a word person than a music person, so I like it when I have a story to cling on to. That's one reason why I'm so fascinated by choral preludes, and generally the whole business of finding secret codes in early music.

I don't agree with you or Veen about John Paul's French suites, though in fairness to Veen his example was from an English suite which I haven't heard. I don't think the music plods because he's so imaginative w.r.t,. rubato, which I think is quite expressive, and because the instrument is so colourful. The tempos are on the slow and mellow side, and it's rarely thrilling or exciting, but that's not a hardship for me, on the contrary. I don't find the instrument particularly tiresome, but I tend not to listen to more than one suite at a time.

[Mandryka]

The problem with clavichord is that I "have been burned" by almost all the recordings I tried (most famously the WTC II with Kirkpatrick) and I have a limited budget (financial, temporal and neural...) for to keep trying lots of things. So it's not really true that I am particularly interested in clavichord recordings. I am interested in the Levin WTC not mainly because it includes clavichord but because it is supposed to be interestingly different and seems to be well regarded by some people.

As for the French Suites, I am quite happy with Koopman, probably happier than with my 2,5 recordings of the English suites (+ another bunch on piano: Schiff, Perahia, Gould, 2+3 with Pogorelich and a few singles). Koopman's sound very nice (not percussive, but not too soft either), playful (with some additional ornaments but no exaggeration). I could imagine more "serious" interpretations but I am not so sure that those would fit the music. These are more playful and relaxed than the English suites. I find the English suites sometimes a little on the overly serious, not to say dour side. Actually, I could maybe need a more playful recording of the English suites before a more massive one of the French...

I wouldn't explore clavichord WTC2s  if I were you. There is one by Jaroslav Tuma, but I'm not so keen on the interpretation.  I have Daniel Chorzempa's recording which uses clavichord sometimes, and I compared it to Tuma's and Levin's in one or two pieces and I enjoyed it much more - if you can sample some of that, you may find it worthwhile.

And you have a perfectly good harpsichord French Suites in Koopman, I'd say it's his best Bach harpsichord recording. I still think you should try to sample Tilney's (and indeed Cera's and indeed the one Don Satz used to rave about, the one by David Cates, which I also find myself liking more and more as I get to know it better and better  - I think seriousness fits the music well) They're on Qobuz and Spotify, so it surely can't be a great problem. Of course, whether you like it is another question, all I'm saying is that they're examples of alternative approaches which I've found stimulating.

You may be better off trying some clavichord Goldbergs. Tuma's good there I think.

[prémont]

If I remember right Dart's recording doesn't sound so good, but I know that many people think highly of it so I should listen again.

The sound is not good, but the playing is.

.... the [French] suites are a representation in music of a journey from trouble through prayer to salvation.

I am more a music man than a man of words - or too earthbound, so statements like this tell me nothing at all.

I don't agree with you or Veen about John Paul's French suites, though in fairness to Veen his example was from an English suite which I haven't heard. I don't think the music plods because he's so imaginative w.r.t,. rubato, which I think is quite expressive, and because the instrument is so colourful. The tempos are on the slow and mellow side, and it's rarely thrilling or exciting, but that's not a hardship for me, on the contrary. I don't find the instrument particularly tiresome, but I tend not to listen to more than one suite at a time.

There is no significant difference in Paul's interpretation of the French, English suites or Partita' s. I admit, that the French suites stand his treatement better than the other works, maybe because they are more intimate works. 

[milk]

I think Levin's choice of instruments is enthralling. I love the clavichord ones. They really work where he used it. I even like the clunky fortepiano on his WTCII. The fugue in 873, for example, is rollicking! I never got hooked on Tuma or Tilney. If you want awesome pedal-harpsichord go for Biggs' trio sonatas. As the for French, I've long loved Van Asperen's quirky sticky charming harpsichord. Maybe VA is not a go-to recording since it's a bit idiosyncratic but I always head back to it. It charms me. I also quite like Brookshire (where has he gone?) and Moroney (a bit muscular?).   

[Jo498]

The Power Biggs is probably my only recording involving a pedal harpsichord. I love it but it does not really sound like historical (or faithfully reconstructed) instrument.

[Que]

This is a nice HIP disc with a pedal harpsichord:

[asin]B00006JST6[/asin]

Recommended! 

Q

[milk]

I recall liking this one but it's been a while.

[Jo498]

thanks, but it seems that especially the Beausejour disc contains only organ works. As I am just trying to get deeper into real organ recordings of those, I'll rather skip the pedal harpsichord versions for now (also the prices of alpha and analekta are kind of steep...) Rechsteiner has several non-organ pieces (this one looks more enticing to me as far as the content). I wonder if he plays arrangements of the originally manualiter pieces or is "simply" doubling some bass notes with the pedal?

[milk]

thanks, but it seems that especially the Beausejour disc contains only organ works. As I am just trying to get deeper into real organ recordings of those, I'll rather skip the pedal harpsichord versions for now (also the prices of alpha and analekta are kind of steep...) Rechsteiner has several non-organ pieces (this one looks more enticing to me as far as the content). I wonder if he plays arrangements of the originally manualiter pieces or is "simply" doubling some bass notes with the pedal?

It's the former. But I don't read music and someone can chime in and confirm. It's quite a good record now that I'm listening again. But the Biggs recording always amazes me with it's energy and precision, although the style and sound is not HIP.

[Sammy]

It's the former. But I don't read music and someone can chime in and confirm. It's quite a good record now that I'm listening again. But the Biggs recording always amazes me with it's energy and precision, although the style and sound is not HIP.

Yes, the Biggs Trio Sonatas disc is nothing less than amazing; passing it up because it's on pedal harpsichord would be a big mistake in my opinion.

[Mandryka]

Rudolf Innig recorded a couple of trio sonatas on a pedal harpsichord, the instrument sounds more baroque than a Challis. Does anyone know what he used, I've lost the booklet?

The Bach pedal harpsichord recording which I've seen people rave about is by Anthony Newman, a Columbia LP. I've never heard it. I have never enjoyed anything played by Newman but people have such orgasms about this recording that if I could hear it for free I would.

Another one I have  is with some Bach and Buxtehude, an early recording by Lionel Rogg.

Watchorn recorded the whole of the WTC on one. Does anyone know why?

[Jo498]

As I mentioned somewhere the Power Biggs recording got me hooked on the Trio sonatas at a time when I found the very sound of the organ rather tedious. I am fond of that recording but it does sound very dry and not quite like historic harpsichords either.

As for Watchorn, apparently at least the a minor fugue in book I has "pedal notes" (and might have been an organ piece originally). Probably there are other pieces that would somehow benefit from doubled bass but overall the WTC is strictly manualiter for all I know so using the pedal harpsichord would need some re-arrangement or doubling of parts.

Newman seems regarded highly by some but I had his Handel suites and a bunch of Mozart sonatas and both were virtuosic and very fast but mostly charm and graceless, so I got rid of them.

[Mandryka]

One thing Innig's CD has which I like very much is the partita BWV 768, O Jesu du elde gabe. He plays with natural sounding  rubato and with sensitivity to the emotional quality of each variation. It's somehow refreshing to hear this on a harpsichord, I don't know of any other recordings which aren't on organ.

[Leo K.]

I've been listening to Landowska's account of Book 2 of the WTC (with the infamous 1912 Pleyel keyboard). The sound of the Pleyel notwithstanding, her pacing (or agogic sense) has an elevated sense of the sublime. Once I start listening it's difficult to stop.

[Que]

Totally missed this recent release!    Anyone already into the game? premont? 

[asin]B016DADXFO[/asin]
Q

[prémont]

Totally missed this recent release!    Anyone already into the game? premont? 

[asin]B016DADXFO[/asin]
Q

No, not yet. Intended for my next JPC order.

[aukhawk]

Another one I have  is with some Bach and Buxtehude, an early recording by Lionel Rogg.

Another LP on the same label - Oryx - the Passacaglia & Fugue in C, and the Trio Sonata in E, played on pedal harpsichord by Nicholas Danby.

The passacaglia in particular is played with extreme broad tempo, with sonorous pedal notes beautifully (though closely) recorded.


The disc also incudes a couple of organ pieces.

[prémont]

Another LP on the same label - Oryx - the Passacaglia & Fugue in C, and the Trio Sonata in E, played on pedal harpsichord by Nicholas Danby.

The passacaglia in particular is played with extreme broad tempo, with sonorous pedal notes beautifully (though closely) recorded.


The disc also incudes a couple of organ pieces.

I used to own this LP long time ago. I found the interpretation of the passacaglia off-putting pedestrian.

BTW It can be downloaded in good mp3 quality here:

http://www.baroquemusiclibrary.com/727Web.html