Sibelius 4

[aukhawk]

More conventional and superbly recorded, Karajan's EMI version from 1978 is better IMO than his more 'comfortable' one on DG.

I second this opinion.  Karajan/EMI (now Warner, remastered) is my preferred version out of 20 in my collection.  The opening is very statement-making - "THIS ... is ... deconstructed ... music".  His timings are much slower here in every movement, than in the DG version.  And the recording is better.



Vanska/Lahti is by far the slowest of all, in the crucial 3rd movement - slow is good so he gets brownie points for this.  He's well over a minute slower than the next slowest (which is Karajan as above).  Both the Vanska recordings are recommendable (both on BIS), and of course the complete Vanska/Lahti set is available very cheaply.

BBC's Building a Library favours Sakari Oramo/CBSO - which I'm afraid I don't agree with at all.  He's another Finn, and it does have that essential lean-ness, but is lightweight overall in the company of Berglund, Blomstedt, Davis, Kamu, Rattle, Sanderling, and especially Vanska and above all Karajan.

I think Maazel/VPO has a special place for some because the Maazel cycle was THE original 'bargain box' - premium recordings boxed by Decca at a low price point never before seen.  I was more or less penniless at the time but even I made a grab for this. 
And the cover image of course iconic.

[Dima]

And it might be because you're Russian.

May be I feel it better, but this is not the rule.
Just one example of the influence or how music of Arensky on theme of Tchaikovsky op.35a became Valse Triste of Sibelius:
https://cloud.mail.ru/public/vNo5/Z25Pu5Uz5

[Jo498]

as far as trist waltzes go, the Russians and Poles are better than Sibelius anyway. But Sibelius should not be estimated by that little piece.

[Dima]

as far as trist waltzes go, the Russians and Poles are better than Sibelius anyway. But Sibelius should not be estimated by that little piece.

Of course, I think Sibelius is great composer but this Valse turned out his most popular composition... I don't know why but mostly people don't want to listen that - in my view it is very interesting and without that you can't understand and estimate composition.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Of course, I think Sibelius is great composer but this Valse turned out his most popular composition.

Sibelius' most popular composition is by far Finlandia, a DISTANT second would be The Swan of Tuonela.

[Dima]

Sibelius' most popular composition is by far Finlandia, a DISTANT second would be The Swan of Tuonela.

"Finland" maybe the most popular in Finland - but it is not very original composition too. I think worldwide the most popular Valse.

[Biffo]

Sibelius' most popular composition is by far Finlandia, a DISTANT second would be The Swan of Tuonela.

Almost tempted to say +1 but would probably put the Karelia Suite up there with the Swan and neither of them very DISTANT.

[Irons]

Is this the same recording?

Pretty certain it is. I also have the 2nd, again on Eterna, but I believe Sanderling recorded the complete set. "Bare bones" Sibelius which I like.

[Mandryka]

I like both the Minnesota and the Lathi Sibelius 4s from Vanska. I like the Minnesota orchestra sound very much.

I kept thinking . . . How would Tchaikovsky symphonies sound played with the same austere nobility?

[prémont]

I like both the Minnesota and the Lathi Sibelius 4s from Vanska. I like the Minnesota orchestra sound very much.

I kept thinking . . . How would Tchaikovsky symphonies sound played with the same austere nobility?

The concept "austere nobility" applied to Tchaikovsky's symphonies made me instantly associate to Klemperer's recordings of ns. 4,5 and 6.

[relm1]

What say you all of Bernstein's Sibelius?  His 60's cycle is quite fine...like everything else he did 60's.

[TheGSMoeller]

What say you all of Bernstein's Sibelius?  His 60's cycle is quite fine...like everything else he did 60's.

I'm a fan, that cycle contains my favorite 4th on record. And I would've loved to hear the Bernstein of the 80s record the 3rd and 4th.

[Biffo]

I'm a fan, that cycle contains my favorite 4th on record. And I would've loved to hear the Bernstein of the 80s record the 3rd and 4th.

The Bernstein cycle is fine and one I only fairly recently heard it. The thought of Lenny conducting the Vienna Philharmonic in the 4th makes me feel unwell.

[aukhawk]

I like both the Minnesota and the Lathi Sibelius 4s from Vanska. I like the Minnesota orchestra sound very much.

So do I but in this particular symphony (and also the 6th) I think it is a bit too opulent - these two symphonies in particular benefit from a leaner sound.  In fact Paul Magi with the Uppsala Chamber Orchestra would be a fine recommendation in this music if he didn't rush the crucial 3rd movement - as it is though he is ruled out, for me, a shame because the orchestral sound is just right and the important woodwind soloists spot on.  Berglund's chamber orchestra version similarly too quick as is his Helsinki recording, his Bournemouth SO recording a much broader reading but then, the Bournemouth sound is again a bit on the rich side.

Other recordings in my collection that I think risk falling into the 'too opulent' category include Bernstein/NYPO, Levine/BPO (coupled with a great 5th though), Rattle/BPO, and probably (I havent heard it yet, it's in the post!) Segerstam/DNRSO.

With the 3rd movement being so important in this symphony, that does mean we are at the mercy of the various soloists in that movement - particularly the flautist - and this I think is a weakness of the Karajan recording (which was just post- James Galway, I think).  Listening again, I find Vanska/Lahti much preferable here.

[relm1]

The thought of Lenny conducting the Vienna Philharmonic in the 4th makes me feel unwell.

Why, too much of Sibelius by way of Wagner?

[Biffo]

Why, too much of Sibelius by way of Wagner?

No, too much Sibelius by way of Lenny.

[Mirror Image]

No, too much Sibelius by way of Lenny.

[relm1]

No, too much Sibelius by way of Lenny.

But I love 60's Lenny Sibelius and 80's Lenny Sibelius which is completely different.  Why is Lenny so bad? 

[Mirror Image]

But I love 60's Lenny Sibelius and 80's Lenny Sibelius which is completely different.  Why is Lenny so bad?

I think what some people have an objection to is how Bernstein overdramatizes Sibelius' music. A case in point would be the final movement of Symphony No. 2, which could use some toning down and more of a detached approach in order to not let the music get too carried away. Also, if I only had Bernstein's recording of Symphony No. 6, for example, I would have never understood this symphony, which, IMHO, is the most enigmatic of all seven symphonies. Bernstein just doesn't let the music speak for itself and I think this is where many conductors fail in Sibelius.

[Cato]

I think what some people have an objection to is how Bernstein overdramatizes Sibelius' music. A case in point would be the final movement of Symphony No. 2, which could use some toning down and more of a detached approach in order to not let the music get too carried away. Also, if I only had Bernstein's recording of Symphony No. 6, for example, I would have never understood this symphony, which, IMHO, is the most enigmatic of all seven symphonies. Bernstein just doesn't let the music speak for itself and I think this is where many conductors fail in Sibelius.

0:)   Amen!   And so...if the music is enigmatic, do not try to explain it via an "interpretation."  Let it be enigmatic!  Stravinsky on that basis was much against "interpretation."