Bruckner's Abbey

[MishaK]

Just arrived today, will get a chance later to spin it. But read the booklet with a very informative write up on the 3rd by Stephen Johnson. I took pics of it to share (how clever I am).
He reveals there are a possible 9 versions of the symphony, and is in-depth with the Wagner inspirations of the piece. Also discusses non-Wagner influences of the 3rd, such as Bruckner's own mother.


Ok, here is the link to my blog where I've uploaded the booklet pics.

Didn't know this existed! Vanskä did a really interesting and unique 4 with Minnesota.

[trung224]

Didn't know this existed! Vanskä did a really interesting and unique 4 with Minnesota.

I have the Vanska's Bruckner 4 but I don't find it unique, because Vanska didn't do anything outside the score. The only unique thing is the new Korstvedt's edition, though in my knowledge, it is almost identical with the Gutman's edition, which older Brucknerian like Knappertsbusch, Furtwängler, Matacic used in the past.

[MishaK]

    I have the Vanska's Bruckner 4 but I don't find it unique, because Vanska didn't do anything outside the score.

Depends what you mean by "outside the score". I personally don't think you need to go outside the score at all to have a wide variety of interpretations. It's been a while, but as I recall, Vänskä had quite unusual textures, not like anyone else's B4. Certainly not conventional.

[Leo K.]

Wand's Berlin Phil. Bruckner 5 (RCA) is really getting to me, I listened to it all day yesterday (somehow) 

[Daverz]

Wand's Berlin Phil. Bruckner 5 (RCA) is really getting to me, I listened to it all day yesterday (somehow) 

I think this is listed as a symptom of something or other in the DSM.

[TheGSMoeller]

After some intense exploration of Bruckner's symphonies, I feel that I have compiled a solid list of my top choices for recordings. I will exclude his first three (F minor, D minor "Die Nullte" and No. 1) as I have only heard two-three recordings of each and don't believe I have enough of a variety to decide.

Symphony no 2 in C minor:
Tintner/Ireland National So (1872 version) - Besides the first three, this is another that I still need a little more time with, but have heard Karajan, Chailly, Young, Inbal, Venzago (which I enjoyed) and finally the Tintner. I definitely prefer the original version, mostly for placing the Adagio third (there is such a nice seque formed with this switch of the movements) and also prefer using the horn in the final bars of the Adagio as opposed to the clarinet, it is purely a personal choice. Tintner's overall statement is a long one, but never feels sluggish, and I feel this symphony has a nice pastoral feel to it (mainly the third and final movements which is another reason why I think they work well together) and the Ireland National S.O. offer a smooth quality in their tone that compliment this, but they can also turn on the fire when needed.
Symphony no 3 in D minor
Inbal/Franfurt Radio SO (1873 version)
Solti/Chicago S.O. (1877 Nowak)
Vanska/BBC Scottish S.O. (1877, with 1876 Adagio) - This was the toughest lot to choose, there are so many different versions of the 3rd to pick from, and they are all good. This is the symphony that I really enjoyed exploring the most, there is so much greatness to the 3rd that I was unaware of. The Solti has been with me for decades now, still remains a favorite, very polished. The Vanska performance is the most unique, a perfect flow throughout the four movements, plus I like how he really brings out a nice dance feel in the finale.
Symphony no 4 in E flat major "Romantic"
Nagano/Bavarian State Opera Orchestra (1874 version)
Dohnanyi/Cleveland O. (1881 Haas)
Venzago/Basel Symphony Orchestra (1886 Nowak) - I have always wanted my "Romantic" recordings to head towards the swifter side rather than broader. Also with a leaner-toned atmosphere, which I feel Dohnanyi and Cleveland accomplish in spades. The Nagano is the first performance to convince me that the original 4th is worthy of recognition. But the Venzago is the most perfect rendition of this lovely work I've encountered. At times sounds more classical than romantic in its approach, but that never diminishes it's beauty.
Symphony no 5 in B flat major
Chailly/Royal Concertgebouw (1875 Haas)
Celibidache/Munich Philharmonic Orchestra (1875) - For a long time I would regard No. 5 as the best of Bruckner. To me, it's his most majestic, it travels the universe and back. And Chailly and Celibidache achieve this more than any other.
Symphony no 6 in A major
Eschenbach/Houston or London Phil (1881)
Dohnanyi/Cleveland O. (1881)
Norrington/Stuttgart Radio Symphony Orchestra (1881) - Along with the 3rd, I found immense pleasure in becoming re-acquainted with the 6th. I still believe it contains the greatest moment of Bruckner's compositional career within the closing minutes of the opening Maestoso. These three (or four) choices couldn't be any more different. Eschenbach is great with both Houston or London Phil, but my purpose for choosing both is for his interpretation of the 6th, which both groups convey. Eschenbach takes many liberties with this music, stretching out key phrases and themes, and giving the 6th an overall grandiose feel. Dohnanyi and Cleveland are clean, crisp and perfectly balanced. And look, it's everyone's favorite crazy Uncle Roger. I'm a paying member of the Norrington fan club, but find this to be his  only success of his Bruckner series. Norrington zips through this piece, especially the finale, (12:39 compared to Dohnanyi 14:47, Eschenbach LPO 15:27) but he keeps it together and strongly convinces with his tempi. And kudos to the Stuttgart players, they keep up without ever missing a beat, literally  and it's a live performance!
Symphony no 7 in E major
Chailly/Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra (1885 Nowak)
Herreweghe/Champs-Élysées Orchestra (1885) - Chailly is simply the best when it comes to the 7th. Not sure if Herreweghe's take would work on any other of Bruckner's symphonies (haven't heard the 4th or 5th from these forces) but it works here. It's light, and very lyrical. That's not a pun.
Symphony no 8 in C minor
Wand/Berlin Phil - I for one never got much from the 8th other than a long, brass-heavy filled finale with a kick-ass coda. Wand's live recording with Berlin is the first to convince me otherwise, that there are three other phenomanal movements, that together make for one long, brass-heavy filled 80 minutes...with a kick-ass coda. Brilliant stuff right here.
Symphony no 9 in D minor
Barenboim/Berlin Phil
Harnoncourt/Vienna Phil - Two very distinct performances. Barenboim is a bit more bleak whereas Harnoncourt offers a little more hope in the end.

[Octave]

Man, you know I love me some lists.

[TheGSMoeller]

Man, you know I love me some lists.

Ha! Me too. In fact that's why in the past I've asked users here to list certain things, such as Favorite Bruckner recordings, because it gives me a chance to get familiar with new recordings.

[Octave]

For those new to this thread, there are at least one or two tidy and extensive lists of top favorites in the "favorite Bruckner interpreter" poll/thread over in the General--->Polling Station subforum.  A long one by Sarge with at least a few choices for each symphony was the one I remember best.

[kishnevi]

Anton help us!  So many of those recordings I don't have.

I disagree with you about Tintner--Karajan der Man there for me.  I've got none of your choices for 3, only one for 4 (Nagano), one with an asterisk for 5 (Celi--asterisk because it's in the not yet listened to pile),  one for 6 (Norrington), one for Seven (Herreweghe, about whom I agree with you), and none of your choices for 8 or 9.  And, truth to tell, of the recordings I do have,  I'm not sure whom I would pick for any of those (except Karajan in 1-3)

[TheGSMoeller]

For those new to this thread, there are at least one or two tidy and extensive lists of top favorites in the "favorite Bruckner interpreter" poll/thread over in the General--->Polling Station subforum.  A long one by Sarge with at least a few choices for each symphony was the one I remember most.

Hey, just remembered I started that "favorite interpreter" thread, I should move it there. I wouldn't want to insult myself.

Anton help us!  So many of those recordings I don't have.

I disagree with you about Tintner--Karajan der Man there for me.  I've got none of your choices for 3, only one for 4 (Nagano), one with an asterisk for 5 (Celi--asterisk because it's in the not yet listened to pile),  one for 6 (Norrington), one for Seven (Herreweghe, about whom I agree with you), and none of your choices for 8 or 9.  And, truth to tell, of the recordings I do have,  I'm not sure whom I would pick for any of those (except Karajan in 1-3)

Hey there, Jeffrey.
Karajan is very good with the 2nd, and my main reason for picking Tintner is because of the version he performs. I should have added another recording there as I did for the 3rd and 4th to cover multiple versions.

Also, have you heard other of Celibidache's discs? I'm very torn with him, love his 5th and 6th, not so much with the 4th, and the 3rd hasn't made much of an impression yet. I think it boils down to which symphonies I feel benefit from Celibidache's slower approach.

[Octave]

Hey, just remembered I started that "favorite interpreter" thread, I should move it there. I wouldn't want to insult myself.

I do think this thread (the Abbey) is the best place for such lists, "for posterity", such as it is; I tentatively suggested that those nice lists (which do require a certain amount of time and care and trouble, not to mention all the prior listening and expenditure) be mirrored/crossposted to this (Abbey) thread, but I didn't want to be bossy about it....I just thought it would make them more visible and accessible.  I guess I don't care where the lists end up as long as they're made: even provisional personal preferences are a valuable way for me to prioritize my purchases.

[Daverz]

Symphony no 4 in E flat major "Romantic"
[...]
I have always wanted my "Romantic" recordings to head towards the swifter side rather than broader. Also with a leaner-toned atmosphere,

You might want to investigate one of the Klemperer recordings on EMI, a studio recording with the Philharmonia and a live recording with the Bavarian RSO.  Both in good stereo.

[asin]B00000AF4S[/asin]

[TheGSMoeller]

You might want to investigate one of the Klemperer recordings on EMI, a studio recording with the Philharmonia and a live recording with the Bavarian RSO.  Both in good stereo.

[asin]B00000AF4S[/asin]

Thanks for the recommendation, Daverz. Despite feeling confident with my list I am aware there are still many recordings I have not heard, Klemperer's 6th is as far as I made it with him.

[Karl Henning]

After some intense exploration of Bruckner's symphonies, I feel that I have compiled a solid list of my top choices for recordings. I will exclude his first three (F minor, D minor "Die Nullte" and No. 1) as I have only heard two-three recordings of each and don't believe I have enough of a variety to decide.

Symphony no 2 in C minor:
Tintner/Ireland National So (1872 version) - Besides the first three, this is another that I still need a little more time with, but have heard Karajan, Chailly, Young, Inbal, Venzago (which I enjoyed) and finally the Tintner. I definitely prefer the original version, mostly for placing the Adagio third (there is such a nice seque formed with this switch of the movements) and also prefer using the horn in the final bars of the Adagio as opposed to the clarinet, it is purely a personal choice. Tintner's overall statement is a long one, but never feels sluggish, and I feel this symphony has a nice pastoral feel to it (mainly the third and final movements which is another reason why I think they work well together) and the Ireland National S.O. offer a smooth quality in their tone that compliment this, but they can also turn on the fire when needed.
Symphony no 3 in D minor
Inbal/Franfurt Radio SO (1873 version)
Solti/Chicago S.O. (1877 Nowak)
Vanska/BBC Scottish S.O. (1877, with 1876 Adagio) - This was the toughest lot to choose, there are so many different versions of the 3rd to pick from, and they are all good. This is the symphony that I really enjoyed exploring the most, there is so much greatness to the 3rd that I was unaware of. The Solti has been with me for decades now, still remains a favorite, very polished. The Vanska performance is the most unique, a perfect flow throughout the four movements, plus I like how he really brings out a nice dance feel in the finale.
Symphony no 4 in E flat major "Romantic"
Nagano/Bavarian State Opera Orchestra (1874 version)
Dohnanyi/Cleveland O. (1881 Haas)
Venzago/Basel Symphony Orchestra (1886 Nowak) - I have always wanted my "Romantic" recordings to head towards the swifter side rather than broader. Also with a leaner-toned atmosphere, which I feel Dohnanyi and Cleveland accomplish in spades. The Nagano is the first performance to convince me that the original 4th is worthy of recognition. But the Venzago is the most perfect rendition of this lovely work I've encountered. At times sounds more classical than romantic in its approach, but that never diminishes it's beauty.
Symphony no 5 in B flat major
Chailly/Royal Concertgebouw (1875 Haas)
Celibidache/Munich Philharmonic Orchestra (1875) - For a long time I would regard No. 5 as the best of Bruckner. To me, it's his most majestic, it travels the universe and back. And Chailly and Celibidache achieve this more than any other.
Symphony no 6 in A major
Eschenbach/Houston or London Phil (1881)
Dohnanyi/Cleveland O. (1881)
Norrington/Stuttgart Radio Symphony Orchestra (1881) - Along with the 3rd, I found immense pleasure in becoming re-acquainted with the 6th. I still believe it contains the greatest moment of Bruckner's compositional career within the closing minutes of the opening Maestoso. These three (or four) choices couldn't be any more different. Eschenbach is great with both Houston or London Phil, but my purpose for choosing both is for his interpretation of the 6th, which both groups convey. Eschenbach takes many liberties with this music, stretching out key phrases and themes, and giving the 6th an overall grandiose feel. Dohnanyi and Cleveland are clean, crisp and perfectly balanced. And look, it's everyone's favorite crazy Uncle Roger. I'm a paying member of the Norrington fan club, but find this to be his  only success of his Bruckner series. Norrington zips through this piece, especially the finale, (12:39 compared to Dohnanyi 14:47, Eschenbach LPO 15:27) but he keeps it together and strongly convinces with his tempi. And kudos to the Stuttgart players, they keep up without ever missing a beat, literally  and it's a live performance!
Symphony no 7 in E major
Chailly/Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra (1885 Nowak)
Herreweghe/Champs-Élysées Orchestra (1885) - Chailly is simply the best when it comes to the 7th. Not sure if Herreweghe's take would work on any other of Bruckner's symphonies (haven't heard the 4th or 5th from these forces) but it works here. It's light, and very lyrical. That's not a pun.
Symphony no 8 in C minor
Wand/Berlin Phil - I for one never got much from the 8th other than a long, brass-heavy filled finale with a kick-ass coda. Wand's live recording with Berlin is the first to convince me otherwise, that there are three other phenomanal movements, that together make for one long, brass-heavy filled 80 minutes...with a kick-ass coda. Brilliant stuff right here.
Symphony no 9 in D minor
Barenboim/Berlin Phil
Harnoncourt/Vienna Phil - Two very distinct performances. Barenboim is a bit more bleak whereas Harnoncourt offers a little more hope in the end.

Thank you for so thoughtfully annotated a list, a delight to read this cool Thursday morning!

And you remind me that I've not yet listened to the Wand/Berliner Philharmoniker disc . . . if this were the Piston thread, and you were snypsss. I'd be toast . . . .

[Cato]

Symphony no 8 in C minor
Wand/Berlin Phil - I for one never got much from the 8th other than a long, brass-heavy filled finale with a kick-ass coda. Wand's live recording with Berlin is the first to convince me otherwise, that there are three other phenomanal movements, that together make for one long, brass-heavy filled 80 minutes...with a kick-ass coda. Brilliant stuff right here.

Not that anyone has been waiting for me to say so, but the last two pages of that score are among the most amazing two pages of music ever composed.

And please, everyone: do NOT start a poll about "Your Top Ten Works Whose Last Two Pages Are Among the Most Amazing Ever Composed" !   

[kishnevi]

Hey there, Jeffrey.
Karajan is very good with the 2nd, and my main reason for picking Tintner is because of the version he performs. I should have added another recording there as I did for the 3rd and 4th to cover multiple versions.

Also, have you heard other of Celibidache's discs? I'm very torn with him, love his 5th and 6th, not so much with the 4th, and the 3rd hasn't made much of an impression yet. I think it boils down to which symphonies I feel benefit from Celibidache's slower approach.

To be perfectly honest,  Tintner totally bored me in 1-3.   That's why I never tried to get his recordings of the other symphonies.

The whole Celibidache box set awaits a first listen.  I simply pointed to the Fifth because you had mentioned it so specifically.

[Brahmsian]

To be perfectly honest,  Tintner totally bored me in 1-3.   That's why I never tried to get his recordings of the other symphonies.

Similar experience with hearing Tintner's 5th.  It bored me, and having explored Tintner's Bruckner further.

[TheGSMoeller]

To be perfectly honest,  Tintner totally bored me in 1-3.   That's why I never tried to get his recordings of the other symphonies.

Similar experience with hearing Tintner's 5th.  It bored me, and having explored Tintner's Bruckner further.

I like Tintner's 2nd and 3rd, but was unimpressed with 6th and 7th, those are the only ones of his I've heard.

[Octave]

Kind of a redundant "recordings-I-am-considering" question, but I thought it might be better here than in that general thread.


Bruckner by Inbal
I was planning on getting a couple of his "original version" recordings, of #3 and 4; but then I saw this box and wondered about it as a whole.  I've searched the Bruckner composer thread and found only some passing comments, and I wonder if the greater availability performances of these versions since the 80s makes this cycle not as desirable.

I am planning on getting the Skrowaczewski cycle in the near future, but for the moment I am tempted by either the Inbal or the Chailly cycle as an addition to my library; most of the comments I've heard about their traversals have been piecemeal, with strong praise for a symphony or two but no comment on the overall quality.  I think MI still favors Chailly's whole cycle, among a few others.  But there is also the option to pass on both of them!