Author Topic: Bruckner's Abbey  (Read 489131 times)

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Offline André

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3280 on: January 24, 2019, 09:22:57 AM »
Coming up in March:



The current release of these performances in the Haitink Symphony Edition takes 9 discs. It will be stretched to 10, presumably by uncoupling the first 3 symphonies (0-2 occupying 2 discs, with the 1st split between discs), and adding the Te Deum as a filler to one of the shorter discs.

Unfortunately missing will be the RCOA remakes of 7-9, which is a pity. The later recordings of 7 and 9 are definite improvements over their earlier counterparts, both in terms of interpretation and sound. As for the 8th, Haitink had changed his vision quite radically, adding almost 12 minutes to its duration. All three later performances are worth reissuing, IMO.

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3281 on: January 24, 2019, 09:36:36 AM »
Couldn't they just have made a HAITINK-DECCA-BRUCKNER box -- with all the Vienna and Berlin recordings, too?  ;D But then they couldn't have used that neat cover, I suppose.

[Berlin is Mahler, of course, not Bruckner]

Offline merlin

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3282 on: January 24, 2019, 10:09:24 AM »
I just unearthed a Jochum/RCO B7 recording from a performance on 17 September 1986 in Tokyo on Altus.  How does this compare with the one you cited with the MPO, Andre?

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3283 on: January 24, 2019, 10:29:08 AM »
I don’t know that Altus recording of the 7th. The Weitblick one I have is from Nov 8, 1979 and was recorded in the Herkulessaal. The timings point to a broader concept: 76 minutes in Tokyo vs 69 in Munich, with a 5minute difference for the first 2 movements.

Concerning the Bamberg 8th: the two versions come from different time/places: September 15, 1982 in the NHK Hall as you mentioned and June 12, 1982 from St-Florian Abbey. I think the latter has the advantage in terms of the depth of musical experience, but it depends what one expects.

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3284 on: January 24, 2019, 12:21:16 PM »
My experience with Jochum has been mixed. His early recordings in Hamburg and Munich (nos 8 and 9 on DGG) are formidable, among the best from the mono era. His stereo cycle on DG is mostly excellent, but a bit light of gait and rather contrived in symphonies 4 and 9. His second cycle in Dresden has never appealed to me. I find the sound shrill and unfocused, and the performances unsettled. Nos 3, 6 and 8 are quite good nevertheless.

Then in the 1980s he started revisiting his favourites, symphonies 5,7, 8 and 9. We have recordings from Amsterdam (5 and 8 ), Munich (7 and 9, with the Philharmonic, not the BRSO) and Bamberg (8, 2 different performances). In those, Jochum seems to have found that elusive ideal: magisterial grandeur, hugely dramatic vistas and a well of emotion that is rarely found in Bruckner. The Amsterdam 5th, Bamberg 8th and Munich 9th are in a class of their own. The others are almost as great.

I agree that the early mono recordings on DG are superb. I was turned off the stereo DGG cycle by the audio quality. I started with the 8th symphony and the balance in the first movement was crazy, with the first trumpet absurdly loud. I generally like the EMI/Dresden cycle, but have never heard any of his later recordings.

My preferred Bruckner is Haitink/Concertgebouw, Chailly/Concertgebouw, Karajan/WPO, Karajan/Berlin, I'm not sure in what order.

Offline JBS

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3285 on: January 24, 2019, 02:27:36 PM »
Meanwhile via the EMI Karajan Remastered set, I am listening to the best B8 I can remember hearing.


Earlier incarnations, now more or less unavailable via Amazon US

Sonics are not impressive...dry and compressed to my ears..but the interpretation is to live for.

I have a similar feeling regarding his EMI B4

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Offline merlin

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3286 on: January 25, 2019, 08:34:14 AM »
I don’t know that Altus recording of the 7th. The Weitblick one I have is from Nov 8, 1979 and was recorded in the Herkulessaal. The timings point to a broader concept: 76 minutes in Tokyo vs 69 in Munich, with a 5minute difference for the first 2 movements.

Concerning the Bamberg 8th: the two versions come from different time/places: September 15, 1982 in the NHK Hall as you mentioned and June 12, 1982 from St-Florian Abbey. I think the latter has the advantage in terms of the depth of musical experience, but it depends what one expects.

I listened to the Tokyo Jochum/RCO B7 last night.  It was indeed much more expansive than anything else I have heard from him, but with lots of depth and emotion.  The SQ was good as well.  His interpretation reminded me of Giulini.

I only have the Bamberg St. Florian B8 in mp3 format (it was posted at abruckner.com in the downloads of the month section), and it is definitely lesser SQ than the Tokyo recording.

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3287 on: January 27, 2019, 10:09:20 AM »
Interview about Bruckner. Probably so basic that few on this forum would learn anything new.

https://avemariaradio.net/audio-archive/church-and-culture-january-26-2019-hour-2/?fbclid=IwAR3ilhtj28aJdY4JT9NJ33v3ICWiC3t8S7wj6G0E27zD82lmhukvVUh8j4c

Latest interview on Ave Maria Radio where Deal Wyatt Hudson invited me to speak about #Bruckner. Which of course is a thing I love to do.

Excerpts from Symphonies 3, 7, 9 (w/ Rémy Ballot/ GRAMOLA) & 5 (Jochum/ Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, 1986) & the Os justi Motet.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3288 on: January 27, 2019, 01:53:23 PM »
Interview about Bruckner. Probably so basic that few on this forum would learn anything new.

https://avemariaradio.net/audio-archive/church-and-culture-january-26-2019-hour-2/?fbclid=IwAR3ilhtj28aJdY4JT9NJ33v3ICWiC3t8S7wj6G0E27zD82lmhukvVUh8j4c

Latest interview on Ave Maria Radio where Deal Wyatt Hudson invited me to speak about #Bruckner. Which of course is a thing I love to do.

Excerpts from Symphonies 3, 7, 9 (w/ Rémy Ballot/ GRAMOLA) & 5 (Jochum/ Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, 1986) & the Os justi Motet.

Very cool, Jens. 8) You’re a star! Keep ‘em coming my man.
“Works of art create rules; rules do not create works of art.” - Claude Debussy

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3289 on: January 27, 2019, 05:14:52 PM »
Very cool, Jens. 8) You’re a star! Keep ‘em coming my man.

 8) ;D

All thanks to Deal Hudson's absolutely shameless exaggeration.

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3290 on: January 27, 2019, 05:22:49 PM »
8) ;D

All thanks to Deal Hudson's absolutely shameless exaggeration.

 :D
“Works of art create rules; rules do not create works of art.” - Claude Debussy

Offline Kna

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3291 on: January 29, 2019, 09:19:03 AM »
Interview about Bruckner. Probably so basic that few on this forum would learn anything new.

https://avemariaradio.net/audio-archive/church-and-culture-january-26-2019-hour-2/?fbclid=IwAR3ilhtj28aJdY4JT9NJ33v3ICWiC3t8S7wj6G0E27zD82lmhukvVUh8j4c

Latest interview on Ave Maria Radio where Deal Wyatt Hudson invited me to speak about #Bruckner. Which of course is a thing I love to do.

Excerpts from Symphonies 3, 7, 9 (w/ Rémy Ballot/ GRAMOLA) & 5 (Jochum/ Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, 1986) & the Os justi Motet.

Listened to it. I liked the "That's just a wise man's summation of another wise composer's great work..." about Jochum's 5th in Amsterdam (1986). Well said Jens ! (And incidentally, I'm on the two pictures of the 2018 Sankt-Florian concert you posted some months ago  ;D)
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Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3292 on: January 30, 2019, 04:34:41 AM »
Interview about Bruckner. Probably so basic that few on this forum would learn anything new.

https://avemariaradio.net/audio-archive/church-and-culture-january-26-2019-hour-2/?fbclid=IwAR3ilhtj28aJdY4JT9NJ33v3ICWiC3t8S7wj6G0E27zD82lmhukvVUh8j4c

Latest interview on Ave Maria Radio where Deal Wyatt Hudson invited me to speak about #Bruckner. Which of course is a thing I love to do.

Excerpts from Symphonies 3, 7, 9 (w/ Rémy Ballot/ GRAMOLA) & 5 (Jochum/ Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, 1986) & the Os justi Motet.

Excellent, Jens Laurson!!!

For those who would like to hear the Os Iusti complete...


An excellent performance with the score:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/ov-OAmpcRfw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/ov-OAmpcRfw</a>



And, in an older recording with a large choir and recorded during a concert...

Here is (Sankt)*  Eugen   0:)    Jochum  (The Os Iusti is at 3:33, but all 4 works are masterpieces.)

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/RLb7LcizXbY" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/RLb7LcizXbY</a>


* We all know it is just a matter of time: Vatican City works slowly!  ;)

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Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3293 on: January 30, 2019, 06:07:15 AM »
Listened to it. I liked the "That's just a wise man's summation of another wise composer's great work..." about Jochum's 5th in Amsterdam (1986). Well said Jens !

Thanks kindly.

Quote
(And incidentally, I'm on the two pictures of the 2018 Sankt-Florian concert you posted some months ago  ;D)

Oh boy... are you going to get me via the European Union General Data Protection Regulation? What do I owe you?  ???

[Next time wave and we'll have a beer!]

Excellent, Jens Laurson!!!


That's "universally adored Mega-famous critic Jens Laurson", to you, sir!  :P :D

Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3294 on: January 30, 2019, 06:16:41 AM »

That's "universally adored Mega-famous critic Jens Laurson", to you, sir!  :P :D







Yes, Master!!!
   :D   8)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

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Offline André

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3295 on: January 30, 2019, 07:40:20 AM »
Thanks kindly.

Oh boy... are you going to get me via the European Union General Data Protection Regulation? What do I owe you?  ???

[Next time wave and we'll have a beer!]

That's "universally adored Mega-famous critic Jens Laurson", to you, sir!  :P :D

Make sure it’s Kronenbourg  ;)

Offline calyptorhynchus

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3296 on: February 13, 2019, 04:25:09 PM »
I was just listening to Helgoland and it occurred to me that it would be much easier to listen to it as one of Bruckner’s last works if someone performed it without the chorus. There isn’t an orchestral only recording but has it ever been performed thus?

Offline SurprisedByBeauty

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3297 on: February 14, 2019, 03:10:19 AM »
Make sure it’s Kronenbourg  ;)

I don't think they serve that at St. Florian.

Offline André

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3298 on: February 14, 2019, 10:52:25 AM »
Probably not, but it’s a brand Kna probably knows very well  ;).

Offline vandermolen

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3299 on: February 14, 2019, 01:36:19 PM »
Coming up in March:



The current release of these performances in the Haitink Symphony Edition takes 9 discs. It will be stretched to 10, presumably by uncoupling the first 3 symphonies (0-2 occupying 2 discs, with the 1st split between discs), and adding the Te Deum as a filler to one of the shorter discs.

Unfortunately missing will be the RCOA remakes of 7-9, which is a pity. The later recordings of 7 and 9 are definite improvements over their earlier counterparts, both in terms of interpretation and sound. As for the 8th, Haitink had changed his vision quite radically, adding almost 12 minutes to its duration. All three later performances are worth reissuing, IMO.
Looks fabulous.
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