Bruckner's Abbey

[jlaurson]

Aha! Thanks Sarge.

Edit: Hold on, it was Amazon.fr I'd checked before. This is unavailable. Maybe an alternative listing?

Isn't he talking about this box of Furtwaengler's Bruckner?

http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2010/02/ionarts-at-large-haitink-in-bruckner.html

Ionarts-at-Large: Haitink in Bruckner, Ozawa not in Bruckner

With all due respect to Maestro Mariss Jansons who I much admire, it is a very good idea for the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra to have guest conductors take on the Anton Bruckner duties...

[Renfield]

Isn't he talking about this box of Furtwaengler's Bruckner?

Yes, that would make sense.

Sorry Sarge, I should have been clearer in my original comment. It was the Andante set I don't have.

[Sergeant Rock]

Isn't he talking about this box of Furtwaengler's Bruckner?

I was. Sorry, Renfield. I thought I knew which box you were talking about. The crowd can disperse now. Nothing to see here, folks.

Sarge

[DarkAngel]

Any comments on these recent Bruckner DVDs by Welser Most/Cleveland?
These are wide screen format and the 9th gets high praise at Amazon both visual and sound performance.

Not much new out there although I see the recent Boulez/WP 8th now available as DVD also

[DarkAngel]

However, having a look at his discography, it seems there's only two versions of him conducting the VPO on the 8th on record. One is the M&A one from 1944, also issued on DG - the version I referred to.
And the other is from 1954, issued (at least) on Andante.

In fact, I think it's in that set you have, which I sadly didn't pick up before it disappeared.

Indeed.....the Andante set contains 4/24/1954 Furtwangler/VPO Bruckner 8th (nowak edition)

[DarkAngel]

OK its official............you must own this boxset!

1951 WP 4th
This is extremely good performance in very good mono sound, not going to say the best because there so many great performances in better more modern sound, but this has a sense of power and authority that is almost unmatched, WP brass section is godlike

1942 BPO 5th
This is the best 5th I have ever heard, Sinopoli/DG has been dethroned......the sound quality is almost a miracle for 1942, unbelievable historical quality. This is a hard symphony to pull off and most conductors loose the long line and just kinda muddle through. Furtwangler has the full measure of this work and makes it sound more coherent and natural then any other I have heard, and the towering climaxes he builds will take your breath away...... this is a crown jewel, a reference 5th

1943 BPO 6th
This is missing the 1st movement (lost) but I can see why M&A put it in this set, sound is just a notch below the 5th but still excellent for 1943 by any standard, performance of what remains is nearly as impressive as 5th but there is more competition here from newer versions. Cut from the same cloth as 1942 5th, iron fist in a velvet glove that scales the heights like few others, a master at work here......

Next in line 1951 BPO 7th, 1944 WP 8th (Haas), 1944 BPO 9th......

[kentel]

OK its official............you must own this boxset!

1951 WP 4th
This is extremely good performance in very good mono sound, not going to say the best because there so many great performances in better more modern sound, but this has a sense of power and authority that is almost unmatched, WP brass section is godlike

1942 BPO 5th
This is the best 5th I have ever heard, Sinopoli/DG has been dethroned......the sound quality is almost a miracle for 1942, unbelievable historical quality. This is a hard symphony to pull off and most conductors loose the long line and just kinda muddle through. Furtwangler has the full measure of this work and makes it sound more coherent and natural then any other I have heard, and the towering climaxes he builds will take your breath away...... this is a crown jewel, a reference 5th

1943 BPO 6th
This is missing the 1st movement (lost) but I can see why M&A put it in this set, sound is just a notch below the 5th but still excellent for 1943 by any standard, performance of what remains is nearly as impressive as 5th but there is more competition here from newer versions. Cut from the same cloth as 1942 5th, iron fist in a velvet glove that scales the heights like few others, a master at work here......

Next in line 1951 BPO 7th, 1944 WP 8th (Haas), 1944 BPO 9th......

I fully agree. I generally don't like Furtwängler that much but I was deeply impressed by this box set : everything is great, especially the 8th and the 9th which are among the best, and maybe the best I've ever heard (and I've heard loads of versions of these two).

And that's right, the sound is astonishing, especially in the takes from 1942, 43 & 44...

--Gilles

[jlaurson]

And that's right, the sound is astonishing, especially in the takes from 1942, 43 & 44...

--Gilles

I too have caved... and agree. The set is worth it alone for the recordings from the 40s. I've never heard a Furtwaengler recording from the 50s (except Wagner) that I've deemed particularly great (certainly not those turgid Lucerne or Bayreuth Beethoven 9th), but the war-time recordings are unnerving, unsettling, with real fire (perhaps hell fire) burning within.

[Renfield]

(certainly not those turgid Lucerne or Bayreuth Beethoven 9th)

Also, I feel unwarrantedly privileged for having had the box set everyone seems to be discovering right now for close to two years.

[mahler10th]

Also, I feel unwarrantedly privileged for having had the box set everyone seems to be discovering right now for close to two years.

I feel equally privilaged everyone seems to be sharing how good it is without withholding such valuable information for close to two years...

This is on my list now.

[jlaurson]

...certainly not those turgid Lucerne or Bayreuth Beethoven 9ths...

Every once in a while, ya' have to take out the hammer. 

[Renfield]

I feel equally privilaged everyone seems to be sharing how good it is without withholding such valuable information for close to two years...

This is on my list now.

Hey, I am quite certain I mentioned it two years back. Perhaps with less (deserved) extravagance, but I'd be surprised if I didn't.

Edit: Though not here, or in the Art of Furtwängler thread, I admit. I probably posted about it in the Purchases or Listening thread.

Every once in a while, ya' have to take out the hammer. 

I'd be less aggrieved if you didn't bunch them both into one category.

[Que]

Every once in a while, ya' have to take out the hammer. 

I'd be less aggrieved if you didn't bunch them both into one category.

Agreed with the last statement - the Lucerne LvB 9th is great and there is more great Furtwängler to be found from the '50s. The '51 Hamburg Brahms 1st and the '53 live Fidelio with the same cast as the EMI studio recording come to mind, as examples.

Q

[kentel]

There is a ninth by Schuricht with the Stuttgart RSO in this 4cd box set  : maybe something has been said about this recording here but I couldn't find it.



I hated it : Schuricht is either too fast or too slow (with some curious accelerandos in the 1st mvt), his harsh phrasing is inadequate for this work (the scherzo sounds like a precipitated military march),  the brass section is terrible (among other things, there is an atrocious horn in the first minutes), and the (live) recording is far below what you could expect for a take from 1951.

--Gilles

[Drasko]

None of several Schuricht ninths I heard were much to my liking, mostly because the same reasons you stated, many tempo relations he chose felt very odd to me.
Nor was I much enamored with few of his Stuttgart recordings I heard, again similar reasons.
But Schuricht's Bruckner can be very impressive at his considerable best. His VPO 5th and 8th (former on DG or Altus, latter on EMI) and BPO 7th (on Profil) should be heard.

As for vintage ninths Furtwangler and Kabasta would be my first options, and perhaps Hausegger in somewhat limited sound.

[kentel]

None of several Schuricht ninths I heard were much to my liking, mostly because the same reasons you stated, many tempo relations he chose felt very odd to me.
Nor was I much enamored with few of his Stuttgart recordings I heard, again similar reasons.
But Schuricht's Bruckner can be very impressive at his considerable best. His VPO 5th and 8th (former on DG or Altus, latter on EMI) and BPO 7th (on Profil) should be heard.

As for vintage ninths Furtwangler and Kabasta would be my first options, and perhaps Hausegger in somewhat limited sound.

Thanks for the tip, I've never heard the Kabasta  (and I enjoyed much the Furtwängler too).

[Scarpia]

Listened to Chailly's Bruckner 3 today.  I had listened to the recording fairly recently and remember being not so impressed with the performance, but a repeat today has given a different result.  I guess I am just in a more receptive mood.  The development of themes in this work is perhaps not so brilliantly managed as in Bruckner's later works, but the work is abundant with beautiful harmonies and sonorities and majestic accumulations of sound.  The use of french horns in the opening pages of the finale is truly awe inspiring.

[jlaurson]

Listening to Paavo's 9th right now. And either I've not listened to it before (and it was the 7th I sort of let run by my ears), or I didn't listen to it properly. I'm liking it a lot better now. (Though partly that's always because it's simply great music.) Sound is excellent; I just wonder how Sony can offer these new SACD releases at such low prices.


A.Bruckner
Symphony No.9
Frankfurt RSO, P.Jaervi
RCA SACD

[Scarpia]

I just wonder how Sony can offer these new SACD releases at such low prices.

RCA is part of Sony now?

[jlaurson]

RCA is part of Sony now?

...and has been, for what... 10 years now?

It entered the Sony family, along with DHM (Deutsche Harmonia Mundi) when BMG and Sony 'merged'.