Bruckner's Abbey

[Pat B]

Hello, Abbey,

I'm about to dive into Blomstedt's cycle with Leipzig, although quite slowly because it's a little expensive. Any comments on this cycle or the individual recoridngs? I'm mostly interested in the 3rd because of it being the original 1873 version, which I'm currently attempting to hear all those available.

No idea, but good to see you back, and I still owe you one.

[TheGSMoeller]

No idea, but good to see you back, and I still owe you one.

Hi, Pat. 

[TheGSMoeller]

My recent Bruckner purchases...

Continuing to explore DRD's Bruckner cycle. The "Nullte" is still one I'm getting to know, but it certainly deserves attention. So far all the DRD/B.Linz recordings I've heard offer great sound with solid performances, and this one is no different. Of the four performances I own of the Nullte, this Arte Nova disc boasts the deepest sound quality so I'll probably use this one as my main for a while as I explore it more. I love the opening to the finale, a real pleasant foundation to begin on.   

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This one is a bit of a surprise. New Philharmonia Orchestra of Westphalia and conductor Johannes Wildner are new names for me, but don't let that deter you if you are also unfamiliar. This is not only a great way to explore the various versions of the 3rd, but to hear them played beautifully. An easy recommendation for someone beginning to expand their collection of 3rd variations.

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Metecic's 5th is nicely constructed, and features the Schalk verison of the finale's coda which includes triangle and cymbals with a change on the timpani part. Easy to say it was a shock to hear the first time, especially since listening to the 5th for 20 years now without them. On the fence really, but it's interesting and really doesn't intrude too much because the percussion is properly placed. The controversial Venzago cycle concludes with quite possibly the most striking performance. Most of Venzago's Bruckner has been on the faster side of tempo when compared to the rest of the field, but this one might be the most extreme. It's 14 minutes faster than the fastest recording I already own (Barenboim/Berlin). I do feel that Bruckner can sound right in various tempi, it really boils down to the conductor being capable of piecing the movements together in a fluid manner and making it all relative from beginning to end. And Venzago is capable of this, as he is a master of his own style, he's 100% aware of what he wants to create from the score. Not that he's right over another interpretation (and who really is?). For a fun comparison, Celibidache's Adagio clocks in at 24:14, Venzago finishes in at 12:14.

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Another DRD/B.Linz, this time the 7th. As I said above, solid, but the world is busy with great 7th recordings. For me performances of the 7th live and die on the strength of the finale, which I feel to be the weakest of the four movements. Here, things get a little sluggish in the brass heavy moments, but overall a good listen.

[asin]B001BWQW6M[/asin]

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Hello, Abbey,

I'm about to dive into Blomstedt's cycle with Leipzig, although quite slowly because it's a little expensive. Any comments on this cycle or the individual recoridngs? I'm mostly interested in the 3rd because of it being the original 1873 version, which I'm currently attempting to hear all those available.

I don't know about anybody else but I've long been looking for a second opinion of Blomstedt's Leipzig set. I know Jens recommends it but to me he's a bit pallid in his praise when his description basically amounts to (IIRC) "there are no wrong steps...nothing is misplaced".

No mean feat in putting all your ducks in a neat row so big kudos to Blomstedt for his achievement!

But.....if Blomstedt is merely "safe" (even "successfully safe") I'm not sure that's gonna cut it for me these days in Bruckner. Dunno...

I do have Blomstedt's 4 (San Francisco) and 7 (Dresden). They've always been "safe bets" for me over the years but I don't reach for them as often as others nowadays. I've grown to love Dohnanyi/Cleveland and Jochum/Dresden has long been a mainstay.

So whatever you have to say Greg about Blomstedt/Leipzig I'll be taking notes!

[jlaurson]

I don't know about anybody else but I've long been looking for a second opinion of Blomstedt's Leipzig set. I know Jens recommends it but to me he's a bit pallid in his praise when his description basically amounts to (IIRC) "there are no wrong steps...nothing is misplaced".

No mean feat in putting all your ducks in a neat row so big kudos to Blomstedt for his achievement!

But.....if Blomstedt is merely "safe" (even "successfully safe") I'm not sure that's gonna cut it for me these days in Bruckner. Dunno...

I do have Blomstedt's 4 (San Francisco) and 7 (Dresden). They've always been "safe bets" for me over the years but I don't reach for them as often as others nowadays. I've grown to love Dohnanyi/Cleveland and Jochum/Dresden has long been a mainstay.

So whatever you have to say Greg about Blomstedt/Leipzig I'll be taking notes!

Maybe a little pallid. But  I think Blomstedt in general (surely also his Dresden 7) is more than just safe. It's just understated. The effect of the whole is greater than any individual element. Sort of like Backhaus in Bruckner.
True... that's not all that Bruckner can or need be, but it's one aspect of Bruckner perfection and few do it better than Blomstedt (or in better sound than the current Leipzigers).

[TheGSMoeller]

Hi, Jens and D.D., hope you're doing well. Thanks for chiming in.

Another recent purchased disc I forgot to mention, the 1873 version of the 3rd performed by Nagano and Deutsches Symphonie-Orchester Berlin. Similar to their 6th, this 3rd performance is musically lavish and exciting. Makes an excellent choice for a premiere recording of the original 3rd. My only quibble is I like the finale to dance a little more in the second theme introduced by the strings, but Nagano's shaping (and the orchestras playing) of this section is so lovely that I easily settle for a slow dance.

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[André]

Last year I heard Yannick Nézet-Séguin conduct the same Original Version here in Montreal. This is fast becoming an acknowledged substitute for the truncated 1888-89 version. The times they are a'changin'...

Hélène Grimaud performed the Brahms d minor concerto in the first part 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

My friend Mark Doran, a British musicologist (he also takes care of the legacy of Deryck Cooke, of Mahler Ten fame), appeals to every Brucknerian and other music-lovers for something very specific: old radio broadcasts, not of concerts, but of talks about composers. Here is the link for those interested: https://markdoran.wordpress.com/2015/02/01/cmon-everyone-join-the-hunt/#more-1882

[Cato]

My recent Bruckner purchases...

Continuing to explore DRD's Bruckner cycle. The "Nullte" is still one I'm getting to know, but it certainly deserves attention. So far all the DRD/B.Linz recordings I've heard offer great sound with solid performances, and this one is no different. Of the four performances I own of the Nullte, this Arte Nova disc boasts the deepest sound quality so I'll probably use this one as my main for a while as I explore it more. I love the opening to the finale, a real pleasant foundation to begin on.   

[asin]B003VIZ8MI[/asin]

Last Spring I had the opportunity to hear Die Nullte in a live performance at the Cathedral in Toledo with the Toledo Symphony conducted by Stefan Sanderling.  Certainly they made a great case for this symphony!  More recordings can only help!

[TheGSMoeller]

Last Spring I had the opportunity to hear Die Nullte in a live performance at the Cathedral in Toledo with the Toledo Symphony conducted by Stefan Sanderling.  Certainly they made a great case for this symphony!  More recordings can only help!

Hi, Cato,

Believe it or not, I still haven't seen a Bruckner symphony performed live. But that's about to change this summer.

[TheGSMoeller]

Re: Herbert Blomstedt 6th with San Fransisco Symphony

I do have the 6th recordng with SFS and have always loved it. I like Jens quote, "The effect of the whole is greater then any individual element." Which I think also explains why it made a small if even noticeable splash in the 6th comparison. It's perhaps not perceived as a very sentimental reading, or at least not so when compared to others, but it's consistent and the contrasts between themes and sections are very dynamic. I recently listened to Blomstedt along with the score, and it seemed as if the score and Bruckner's notations were imbedded precisely, considering tempo markings can be slightly subjective the reading was extremely close to being exactly what was printed. So is that what would make listeners consider to be unsentimental? Or safe? Not sure, but now since I've followed along with the score, I now feel that Blomstedt has a very strong passion regarding this work, and more importantly, passion for Bruckner's score. Take the finale for an example, there are more obvious tempo and dynamic changes in Blomstedt's than almost more of the 30+ recoridngs of the 6th I've heard. His fasts are bright and crisp, and his retardandos are extreme, but to these ears it accentuates the various colors from the score. I'm still moving inches closer to his Leipzig set.

Two for the road:

Two of the 6th recoridngs that have made a strong impression on me since the comparison ended is Jochum/Dresden on EMI and the Van Zweden/Netherlands. What really first threw me off of the Jochum/Dresden is the harshness of the brass, primarily the trumpets, it's unbearably annoying at times, even seeming as if the intonation of the players is suffering. But overall it's powerful, and I prefer it over Jochum's DG 6th because of the sound, the strings mostly in the lower registers are more full-bodied sounding. And Jochum knows how to drive this piece forward, it's a roller coaster for sure.
The Van Zweden is interesting and beautifully played. It's not often I hear a performace where the finale is played at a similar broad pace as the opening Maestoso, or rather with the similar broad atmosphere. Van Zweden/Netherlands create bold bookends to the symphony, in the symphony's closing coda when the trombones bring back the triplet theme from the Maestoso I truly feel the piece has gone full circle and returned home, almost more so than any other recoridng.

See, this is what happens when I'm off from work and sitting at a cafe drinking coffee, I think too much. 
Also my iPad is beginning to show its age, or rather not able to handle the dozens of OS updates, and continues to make it difficult for me to type so please ignore any spelling errors.

[Cato]

Hi, Cato,

Believe it or not, I still haven't seen a Bruckner symphony performed live. But that's about to change this summer.

In the past decade or so it has become a tradition for the Toledo Symphony to perform a Bruckner symphony in the cathedral.

This year:  Symphony #1 in early May.  Worth the drive!  Toledo also has one of the greatest art museums in the U.S. with a separate museum on glass history.

Not to be forgotten: The Mudhens!   

http://www.toledosymphony.com/index.php?src=events&srctype=detail&category=Mozart%20%26%20More&refno=351

[North Star]

Toledo also has one of the greatest art museums in the U.S. with a separate museum on glass history.

Is the El Greco painting of Toledo there?

[Cato]

Is the El Greco painting of Toledo there?

No, but two other paintings by El Greco are!  Not to mention several by Rembrandt, Rubens, etc. etc. etc.

Anselm Kiefer's Athanor is not be missed!

[North Star]

No, but two other paintings by El Greco are!  Not to mention several by Rembrandt, Rubens, etc. etc. etc.

Anselm Kiefer's Athanor is not be missed!

Very nice, I'd certainly pay that museum (for) a visit if I ever happened to be in the neighbourhood. Which is to say, it's bloody unlikely to happen. 

[Sergeant Rock]

Very nice, I'd certainly pay that museum (for) a visit if I ever happened to be in the neighbourhood. Which is to say, it's bloody unlikely to happen. 

Well, when you make your first transcontinental road trip from New York to San Francisco (and of course you have to make that journey someday ), just get on Interstate 80 and head west, young man. You'll eventually arrive in Toledo Ohio...can't miss it 

Sarge

[Cato]

Well, when you make your first transcontinental road trip from New York to San Francisco (and of course you have to make that journey someday ), just get on Interstate 80 and head west, young man. You'll eventually arrive in Toledo Ohio...can't miss it 

Sarge

"Looking for America..."   

[North Star]

Well, when you make your first transcontinental road trip from New York to San Francisco (and of course you have to make that journey someday ), just get on Interstate 80 and head west, young man. You'll eventually arrive in Toledo Ohio...can't miss it 

Sarge

Of course, I'd have to get to New York first..

[TheGSMoeller]

I'm guessing that somewhere in these pages this has been mentioned before, but a great site that I've been frequenting and is very useful is www.abruckner.com
Its a complete discography of Bruckner's music, and seperates each version of them. It's been a real gem of a guide when exploring the 3rd and it's numerous editions and recordings.

[MishaK]

New listenings. Herbert Blomstedt' s 7th in Dresden has for some years been my favourite performance. I'm not among those who think this is the Master's best work. Blomstedt makes it sound so organic, powerful, divinatory. Therefore I was curious to her his Romantic from the same forces and stable (the Denon recording crew).

Blomstedt's Romantic has all these virtues, and then some: there is a real sense of symphonic allegroing, power, majesty, organic progression, mighty onward flow and splendidly virile playing from the indomitable Dresdeners. All captured in translucent, well-balanced sound (crank up the volume though, otherwise it will sound tame).

Daniel Barenboim's 5th in Berlin is very much like his misbegotten Chicago half-baked, too fast previous reading. The overall timing is ok. At 72 minutes it clocks in a few minutes slower (!) than one of my benchmarks, the wondrous Berlin RSO version under Suitner. And a full 6-7 minutes faster than my other benchmarks, Klemperer's New Philharmonia versions which, although slower offer a trenchancy and might that escape this on-off, on again, off again version. Barn-bing-bang-boom treats the work like it needs help, a mortal sin in Bruckner. The orchestra plays splendidly and is well recorded.

Listened to so far in this Barenboim Berlin cycle are symphonies 1-5 and 7. I count 2, 3 and 7 as successes, 1 as a good reading and 4, 5 as ill-conceived. Oh yes ! I forgot Helgoland (coupled with the 1st): one of Bruckner's very last works, Barenboim does it justice (not so in Chicago), but the Wyn morris version knocks it off (and all other contenders) with little apparent effort. One of the triumphs of the Bruckner discography.

André,

I disagree with you on the Barenboim 5 (though I agree that the recorded sound of the BPO cycle is lousy), and I think you need to stop looking at the watch for timings. The spectrum of logically plausible and convincing interpretations of Bruckner is immense, so there is no such thing as objectively, asbolutely "too fast". But I think you would get a lot out of listening to the 5th in the hands of Sinopoli/Dresden and Dohnyani/Cleveland. Back to Barenboim, you should check out the live 7 with Staatskapelle Berlin. Easily the best of the three. You should also do yourself a favor and add the entire Skrowaczewski cycle to your listening.