Bruckner's Abbey

[Cato]

It's a three-way tie for me:

Boulez/VPO
Dohnanyi/Cleveland
Jochum/Dresden

Chailly/Concertgebouw rounds out my list.

I do not know that many recordings of the Eighth, but those 3 are winners.  Everyone here probably knows I would place Jochum first    on the list, but yes, we agree here.  The Chailly I have not heard, but he conducted one of my favorite CD's of the Gurrelieder by Schoenberg, so with your enthusiasm I will assume his Bruckner is at the top! 

That was approximately my reaction as well. It's unclear from the performance who hated whom more: Solti the VPO or the other way around.

I am really intrigued to find this recording now!   

[Daverz]

You should. ;-) Which Kubelik B8 was it you didn't like? Orfeo or BR? I didn't like the Orfeo but I thought the BR version is excellent.

A friend gave me a 1966 stereo broadcast of a Kubelik B8 with the Chicago SO that's very good.

[Sergeant Rock]

A friend gave me a 1966 stereo broadcast of a Kubelik B8 with the Chicago SO that's very good.

I was in the audience for a Kubelik/Cleveland B8 at Severance Hall in 1973. I remember being in ecstasy. Why the SOBR recording didn't similarly move me...well, I need another listen to figure it out.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

I am really intrigued to find this recording now!   

I haven't heard it since 1972. I wonder if it really is as bad as I recall. Maybe. I've never associated Solti with good Bruckner.

Sarge

[amw]

7 for the third time in 2 days—today it's Haitink Time.



I'm struck by how much Schubert there is in Bruckner—what's coming to mind particularly at the moment is the way extremely daring and wide-ranging harmonic passages get rounded off by banal cadential figures, as though vainly attempting to 'normalise' them. The clearest Schubert example I can think of right now is the slow movement of the C minor sonata D.958.

Also it's Passover. Chag sameach Jeffrey Smith!

[trung224]

 Some of my favorite :
1. Furtwängler BPO 1944
2. Jochum live with Hamburg Philharmonic 1949 on DG
3. Knappertsbusch live MPO 1963 on Dreamlife CD (not the commercial one on Westminster)
4. Wand live NDR in Lübeck 1987
5. Karajan VPO 1988
6. Celibidache live MPO 1990 in Tokyo on Altus CD
7. Giulini live with Philharmonia Orchestra  on BBC Legends
8. Boulez VPO
9. Van Beinum with CGO

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I do not know that many recordings of the Eighth, but those 3 are winners.  Everyone here probably knows I would place Jochum first    on the list, but yes, we agree here.

Oh, Jochum just got put last because "J" comes after "D" after "B". In an alternate universe somewhere he's first on that list.

The Chailly I have not heard, but he conducted one of my favorite CD's of the Gurrelieder by Schoenberg, so with your enthusiasm I will assume his Bruckner is at the top! 

I love Chailly's Gurrelieder, too. I haven't actually spun his Bruckner 8th in some time now though. And since everything is in boxes due to the impending move I'm forced to sit tight until I can get to my CDs again and give it another spin. I'm anxious. Will report.

[TheGSMoeller]

I'm getting closer to wanting to run a Bruckner 7th blind comparison. That is if I can get enough participants. I have a good amount of recordings, with many conductors that were not a part of the 6th BC.
I also have a few ideas for changing the elimination format.

What say you? 

[jlaurson]

I'm getting closer to wanting to run a Bruckner 7th blind comparison. That is if I can get enough participants. I have a good amount of recordings, with many conductors that were not a part of the 6th BC.
I also have a few ideas for changing the elimination format.

What say you? 

If "you" is everyone, I say: Yes! I've got plenty, if you need material.

[TheGSMoeller]

If "you" is everyone, I say: Yes! I've got plenty, if you need material.

Thanks, Jens!   

[Cato]

I'm getting closer to wanting to run a Bruckner 7th blind comparison. That is if I can get enough participants. I have a good amount of recordings, with many conductors that were not a part of the 6th BC.
I also have a few ideas for changing the elimination format.

What say you? 

Yes!  My life was becoming empty: climbing Everest - check, swimming English Channel - check, defeating a ninja in a swordfight - check. 

Okay, so those were all mental exercises!   

But I have not yet done something really great, like a Bruckner Seventh Blind Comparison!!!

Many thanks for offering to do this!

Oh, Jochum just got put last because "J" comes after "D" after "B". In an alternate universe somewhere he's first on that list.

I love Chailly's Gurrelieder, too. I haven't actually spun his Bruckner 8th in some time now though. And since everything is in boxes due to the impending move I'm forced to sit tight until I can get to my CDs again and give it another spin. I'm anxious. Will report.

Thank Heavens!   0:)

I know the feeling!  Best Wishes on moving!

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I know the feeling!  Best Wishes on moving!

Thanks, Cato.

[amw]

Continuing my 7ths with Szell, which is a bit... I don't know, want to say undercharacterised, though it's not really; it's perfectly good, I'm sure it's someone's favourite, but for me it just seems too restrained or something. Too 'perfect' in some ways.

My favourite of the four 7ths is def shaping up to be Wand/Berlin. But with a caveat: from the 6th comparison I know Wand tends to not be a details kinda guy, he just paints everything in broad brush strokes. Maybe I need to hear Celi or YNS or something.

[amw]

Went back to B8 with Chailly/Concertgebouw, which has immediately shot up to first place ahead of Païta and Rozh. He's actually a lot like Boulez as I recall, so I don't know why I like him so much more: it's just a very serious interpretation, tragic without sensationalism, deeply felt without visible sentiment, & convincingly optimistic (a quality I usually don't like much in this symphony). The moment that sums up the kinds of things I like about the interpretation is the beginning of the adagio, where Chailly more than any other conductor I've heard makes the accompaniment chords sound like slow heartbeats.

I realise this is kind of backwards as Sarge called it a 'meh' (though that's probably on account of its reserve, which is a quality I personally admire in performances of Austrian music written 1860-1890 >.>) and I still haven't heard any of the 'big name' performances apart from Boulez. I have been paying attention to your suggestions, don't worry guys they're on a list

[Cato]

Went back to B8 with Chailly/Concertgebouw, which has immediately shot up to first place ahead of Païta and Rozh. He's actually a lot like Boulez as I recall, so I don't know why I like him so much more: it's just a very serious interpretation, tragic without sensationalism, deeply felt without visible sentiment, & convincingly optimistic (a quality I usually don't like much in this symphony). The moment that sums up the kinds of things I like about the interpretation is the beginning of the adagio, where Chailly more than any other conductor I've heard makes the accompaniment chords sound like slow heartbeats.

I realise this is kind of backwards as Sarge called it a 'meh' (though that's probably on account of its reserve, which is a quality I personally admire in performances of Austrian music written 1860-1890 >.>) and I still haven't heard any of the 'big name' performances apart from Boulez. I have been paying attention to your suggestions, don't worry guys they're on a list

Very interesting reaction!  Many thanks!

Many years ago I read Eduard Hanslick's review of the work: he was NOT a fan!   0:)

Here are two excerpts:

...Also characteristic of Bruckner's newest symphony is the immediate juxtaposition of dry schoolroom counterpoint with unbounded exaltation.  Thus, tossed about between intoxication and desolation, we arrive at no definite impression and enjoy no artistic pleasure.  Everything flows, without clarity and without order, willy-nilly into dismal long-windedness.  In each of the four movements, and most frequently in the first and third, there are interesting passages and flashes of genius – if only all the rest were not there!  It is not out of the question that the future belongs to this muddled hangover style – which is no reason to regard the future with envy...

Even before the performance we had heard such provocative reports of the extraordinary profundity of the new symphony that I took care to prepare myself through study of the score and attendance at the dress rehearsal.  I must confess, however, that the mysteries of this all-embracing composition were disclosed to me only through the helpful offices of an explanatory programme handed to me prior to the concert...

In the Adagio we behold nothing less than "the all-loving Father of mankind in all his infinite mercy!"  Since this Adagio lasts exactly twenty-eight minutes or about as long as an entire Beethoven symphony, we cannot complain of being denied ample time for the contemplation of  the rare vision.  .

Fascinating that what he heard was so distasteful to him.

See:

https://theoryofmusic.wordpress.com/2009/10/11/bruckners-symphony-no-8-reviewed-by-eduard-hanslick-1892/

[Karl Henning]

". . . tossed about between intoxication and desolation" . . . he says that, like it's a bad thing . . . .

[Cato]

". . . tossed about between intoxication and desolation" . . . he says that, like it's a bad thing . . . .

That is the ultimate succinct description of many a life on earth!  0:)

[amw]

My next B8 may be Jochum as I've heard he actually plays the last three notes correctly. Question is: which one, Hamburg, Berlin or Dresden? What's the difference between them? (Apart from mono vs stereo that is—not so interested in sound quality)

[mahler10th]

That is the ultimate succinct description of many a life on earth!  0:)

". . . tossed about between intoxication and desolation" . . . he says that, like it's a bad thing . . . .

I have had serious issues with that old goat Eduard Hanslick since Cato introduced me to him a few years ago.   

[Cato]

My next B8 may be Jochum as I've heard he actually plays the last three notes correctly. Question is: which one, Hamburg, Berlin or Dresden? What's the difference between them? (Apart from mono vs stereo that is—not so interested in sound quality)

I cannot comment on the Hamburg, but the other two are usually distinguished by the precision of the Berliners vs. the slightly more powerful (debatable) and (therefore) more "elemental" sound of the Dresdners.

I have had serious issues with that old goat Eduard Hanslick since Cato introduced me to him a few years ago.   

Hanslick had an interesting take on Tchaikovsky's Sixth as well! He complained about "the merciless length," complained about the lamentably wild "Cossack nature" of the Scherzo, complained about various parts that were simply "not beautiful," complained about the "unpleasant nature" of the 5/4 in the second movement, which he suggested should have been 6/8, etc.  As a whole, however, the symphony made a worthwhile impression, he concluded, apparently grudgingly.