And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

[JBS]

Those promises are reality elsewhere in the world. They are not reality in the US because of corruption and oligarchy. When do you wake up? Never?

In a wierd way, you are correct.  The US medical insurance system is corrupted, and got that way as a direct result of Medicare.  So to argue for MfA is to argue that we need to increase the corruption.

[Karl Henning]

Those promises are reality elsewhere in the world.

That fact alone is not any use for improving the system in the US.

[71 dB]

That fact alone is not any use for improving the system in the US.

That's what the insurance companies and Big Pharma want you to believe (because they benefit enourmously from the system as it is) and thanks to corporate media a lot of people believe it including you, it seems... 

[Karl Henning]

That's what the insurance companies and Big Pharma want you to believe.

No, tireless evangelist: My statement is a naked, agenda-free fact. Your blinders are showing.

[SimonNZ]

Empirical evidence shows medicare for all is a brilliant idea. Everyone is covered, costs are lower. No medical bankruptcies. No people avoiding doctors. More choice because you can see ANY doctor, not only those in the network. Do you really want to remain an ignoramus? Jesus!

Medicare for all is build on medicare program, but it is MUCH better. It is actually financed properly and includes dental, hearing and vision. Do you really want to remain an ignoramus? Jesus!

Physician: heal thyself.

[71 dB]

No, tireless evangelist: My statement is a naked, agenda-free fact. Your blinders are showing.

What is my agenda?

[JBS]

What is my agenda?

To advance policies you sincerely believe in.
Your sincere belief in those policies, of course, is no guarantee that they are good ones.

But Karl's point is essentially the same as mine: whatever changes will be made in the US health system will start from what exists now, not what exists in Finland or Canada. And certainly  not from what exists in Kyle Kulinski's imagination. And what exists now is a large government run system for seniors that doesn't deliver better care, that has higher costs,  is rife with fraud and corruption, and which still makes private insurance a necessity. . What exists now is a government run system for veterans which may be among the worst in the world (read up on the US Veteran's Admimistration). The average American voter sees those and quite rationally says no to joining them if they have another option.

What is needed is a system that allows people to get care who are not in the system now, the people who don't have another option, without degrading the care everyone else gets.

[71 dB]

To advance policies you sincerely believe in.

Yeah, that's what people tend to do, advance things they believe in...

Your sincere belief in those policies, of course, is no guarantee that they are good ones.

Of course not, but so aren't your beliefs.

But Karl's point is essentially the same as mine: whatever changes will be made in the US health system will start from what exists now, not what exists in Finland or Canada. And certainly  not from what exists in Kyle Kulinski's imagination. And what exists now is a large government run system for seniors that doesn't deliver better care, that has higher costs,  is rife with fraud and corruption, and which still makes private insurance a necessity. . What exists now is a government run system for veterans which may be among the worst in the world (read up on the US Veteran's Admimistration). The average American voter sees those and quite rationally says no to joining them if they have another option.

What is needed is a system that allows people to get care who are not in the system now, the people who don't have another option, without degrading the care everyone else gets.

Canada and Finland aren't the same. Well, both are big in Ice Hockey... ...you keep talking about medicare, but it's not properly financed. Medicare for all works when there is not private insurers cherry picking. That's when it is properly financed with taxes and the middle man is taken away. Kyle Kulinski doesn't imagine these things. These things have been researched. There are studies. Kyle reads these studies. It is fact based. Your view of medicare for all is so wrong and I blame corporate media.

[Karl Henning]

.you keep talking about medicare, but it's not properly financed.

And there you've stumbled upon a concomitant objection to your crusade.  As we've seen by ACA's Achilles heel, the system will not be improved, nor its financing be secured, without some kind of legislative consensus.

[SimonNZ]

There are studies. Kyle reads these studies.

Which studies has Kyle read? Does he cite them, quote them directly and at length and provide links to them so his listeners can go deeper or check his accuracy?

[JBS]

Yeah, that's what people tend to do, advance things they believe in...

Of course not, but so aren't your beliefs.

Canada and Finland aren't the same. Well, both are big in Ice Hockey... ...you keep talking about medicare, but it's not properly financed. Medicare for all works when there is not private insurers cherry picking. That's when it is properly financed with taxes and the middle man is taken away. Kyle Kulinski doesn't imagine these things. These things have been researched. There are studies. Kyle reads these studies. It is fact based. Your view of medicare for all is so wrong and I blame corporate media.

My view of Medicare is based on my experience helping my mother deal with Medicare and insurers for the better part of two decades, and the experience of neighbors and co-workers in the same situation with their parents, and sometimes themselves. As I said, it works well only for people who are healthy.  Medicare for All means forcing that system on everyone.

properly financed with taxes

Is a nice sounding phrase with no chance of being implemented in real life.

[Karl Henning]

Which studies has Kyle read? Does he cite them, quote them directly and at length and provide links to them so his listeners can go deeper or check his accuracy?

What do you mean? Double-check The Oracle?!

[71 dB]

Which studies has Kyle read? Does he cite them, quote them directly and at length and provide links to them so his listeners can go deeper or check his accuracy?

Why is it you think everything I or Kyle say comes out of a hat? Of course he cites these studies. He is a fact based person. I know you don't watch his videos so you wouldn't know.

Sorry if I don't have a link list for you or other ignorant people. Do your own homework. Just keep in mind the insurance companies publish pseudostudies to protect their business.

https://www.youtube.com/v/owRj79O6oH0

Mercatus, a Koch-funded think-tank, conducted a study and found that Medicare For All would save $2 trillion over a ten-year period. The University of Massachusetts Political Economy Research Institute (PERI) projected that the savings over the same period of time would be approximately $5 trillion.

[71 dB]

And there you've stumbled upon a concomitant objection to your crusade.  As we've seen by ACA's Achilles heel, the system will not be improved, nor its financing be secured, without some kind of legislative consensus.

What would you do with the healthcare system Karl? Just accept it is what it is?

As long as there is for profit component it is hard to improve anything. That's why we need to get rid of the for profit stuff and go single payer.

[SimonNZ]

Of course he cites these studies.

Name one.

[JBS]

Why is it you think everything I or Kyle say comes out of a hat? Of course he cites these studies. He is a fact based person. I know you don't watch his videos so you wouldn't know.

Sorry if I don't have a link list for you or other ignorant people. Do your own homework. Just keep in mind the insurance companies publish pseudostudies to protect their business.

https://www.youtube.com/v/owRj79O6oH0

Mercatus, a Koch-funded think-tank, conducted a study and found that Medicare For All would save $2 trillion over a ten-year period. The University of Massachusetts Political Economy Research Institute (PERI) projected that the savings over the same period of time would be approximately $5 trillion.

Wrong about the Mercatus study
https://economics21.org/blahous-study-didnt-find-medicare-for-all-lowers-costs-two-trillion

[JBS]

 the UMass study is really just a shill piece for Berniecare
https://www.commondreams.org/newswire/2018/11/30/depth-analysis-team-umass-amherst-economists-shows-viability-medicare-all

But it assumes that employer provided insurance will have their premiums cut...which means it's not envisaging an actual single payer system.
It also includes a new federal sales tax on almost everything other than food and housing, and a wealth tax.  Good luck on passing that even in a Democratic Party controlled Congress.

If you got those two studies via the Young Turks, then you once again have clear evidence that they are feeding you garbage information.

[71 dB]

Name one.

Sorry I am bad at remembering. Anyway, the studies are there and the message is real. If Medicare for all wasn't that good, nobody would advocate it, not even Bernie. Why would he?

I am done. I hope I can stay away 2020

[Karl Henning]

If Medicare for all wasn't that good, nobody would advocate it, not even Bernie. Why would he?

I am done. I hope I can stay away 2020

In your religious zeal, you fail to perceive the gorilla-sized fallacy there.

[71 dB]

In your religious zeal, you fail to perceive the gorilla-sized fallacy there.

So, Biden is the next president, you are happy. Nothing changes and the US keeps electing new Trumps after Biden's one term. The US becomes a permanent laughing stock around the world. Whatever, because I am the religious one...