And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

[Florestan]

You are right, but society can arrange enough labor to be allocated based on need

"Society" cannot arrange anything, based on need or anything else, because "society" has no personality, will or feeling. "Society" always and everyhwere translates into "some people". And always and everywhere, Finland included, those people are an oligarchy, because that's the very definition of the oligarchy: that a few people decide what the vast majority of all other people should do or need. It doesn't matter if that oligarchy is self-imposed or democratically elected every 4 or 5 years --- in either case it's they who make the rules and enforce them, and everybody else must obey.

[Karl Henning]

This is not "your" safe space. This is an internet forum. We have to withstand each other here or leave.

Never said this is anyone's safe space.  My remark has everything to do with your benefiting from taking a break and trying to incubate a healthy perspective.  I am not the one in emotional denial of reality.

[Karl Henning]

"Mr. Sanders acknowledged in a news conference that he had "not done as well in bringing young people into the process" as he had expected, but he argued that would change in November should he get the nomination. He also declined to call on Ms. Warren to drop out, saying she should have time to make her own decision and pronouncing himself "disgusted" by the vitriol directed at her by some of his supporters."


See that, Poju? Bernie is disgusted by you.

[greg]

"Society" cannot arrange anything, based on need or anything else, because "society" has no personality, will or feeling. "Society" always and everyhwere translates into "some people". And always and everywhere, Finland included, those people are an oligarchy, because that's the very definition of the oligarchy: that a few people decide what the vast majority of all other people should do or need. It doesn't matter if that oligarchy is self-imposed or democratically elected every 4 or 5 years --- in either case it's they who make the rules and enforce them, and everybody else must obey.

Volunteer work? Gofundme?

But on a large scale it might not be enough.

[Karl Henning]

Maine has been called for Biden.

And:

Biden's Delegate Lead Is Small, but Could Be Hard to Overcome

Bernie Sanders had an advantage on Super Tuesday he will not see again: many early votes cast before moderates coalesced around one candidate.

[j winter]

Thanks to all for your kind comments on my earlier post. 

A Letter to My Children Regarding Bernie Sanders[

JBS, you're gonna love this! And so are all moderates here, methinks.

Interesting link, thanks for sharing.  It's tempting to filter all of the media noise so as to hear that Sanders is not truly a "socialist" in the classic sense, but rather using the term as a euphemism for a less radical left-wing approach -- and that may be true, but the honeymoon in the Soviet Union does gives one pause (and would provide endless fodder for commercials for Trump in the fall, justified or not...)

[Florestan]

Volunteer work?

Oh yeah, as if people seeking, or having, places in the government or the Congress do volunteer work. 

[Florestan]

Thanks to all for your kind comments on my earlier post. 

Interesting link, thanks for sharing.  It's tempting to filter all of the media noise so as to hear that Sanders is not truly a "socialist" in the classic sense, but rather using the term as a euphemism for a less radical left-wing approach -- and that may be true, but the honeymoon in the Soviet Union does gives one pause (and would provide endless fodder for commercials for Trump in the fall, justified or not...)

I think the article is spot on.

Questions for you all: why does Sanders need to qualify his socialism as "democratic"? Does this not imply that there is an "undemocratic" socialism? Would anyone of you buy the notion of "democratic" fascism or nazism?

Another spot on article below:

the highest duty of leftist intellectuals is not to inspire us to believe that a socialist future will be different from the capitalist present, but to argue convincingly that it can and will be very different from the socialist past. On these crucial points, however, [Sanders] will persuade only those already convinced of socialism's nobility and feasibility..

[71 dB]

I made some calculations about what the final delegate amounts could be for Biden and Sanders based on how the delegates have gone so far:

My estimate:

Biden 651 delegates
Sanders 662 delegates

Hard to say how this goes, but it's not impossible Bernie actually takes the delegate lead (thanks to California), but it's a close race nevertheless! 

[Florestan]

I made some calculations about what the final delegate amounts could be for Biden and Sanders based on how the delegates have gone so far:

My estimate:

Biden 651 delegates
Sanders 662 delegates

Hard to say how this goes, but it's not impossible Bernie actually takes the delegate lead (thanks to California), but it's a close race nevertheless! 

Non si dà follia maggiore dell'amare un solo oggetto

[SimonNZ]

I do respect everyones right to have their opions, whatever they are, but I have hardly any respect toward the opinions expressed here and I am myself shocked by that. Why are classical music fans so right-wing? Maybe it's the elitist nature of classical music and having a leftist classical music fan seems to be a rarity and I happen to be one such rare example. Drogulus is one example of someone whose political posts I do respect. I don't say I ALWAYS agree with him 100 %, but at least he seems to know what he is talking about and is clearly free of corporate brainwashing. I very rarely comment on his posts, because I don't need to. They are knowledgeable and respectable. It's you, Florestan and Karl Henning I am feuding nonstop, because I find your and their posts the "manufacturing consent" -type.

You don't see the irony, so let me point it out to you...

You used to go on about the Overton Window, how everyone not as far right as the most rabid Trumpist was now branded a filthy leftist or at the very least a RINO, but here you are holding the position that anyone not as left as Sanders is shockingly right-wing.

Then, of course, there's that other irony we've been over and over: that you get your "news" from a small few on just one media, whereas everyone else takes it in from a huge variety, but its they who are brainwashed (and never mind that "they" don't agree among themselves about much and often argue heatedly here).

[71 dB]

Questions for you all: why does Sanders need to qualify his socialism as "democratic"? Does this not imply that there is an "undemocratic" socialism? Would anyone of you buy the notion of "democratic" fascism or nazism?

There is not just capitalism and socialism, but mixed economies having different combinations of capitalistic and socialistic ideas. For example Cuba is about 80 % communist and 20 % capitalist. People consider it a communist country because the communism is so dominant, but in reality Cuba is a mixed economy of some capitalism mixed with communism.

In reality Bernie Sanders is a social democrat who mistakenly calls himself a democratic socialist. I think this because of how the left has labeled itself in the US for decades.

Social Democracy is based on regulated capitalism with welfare state and has been very successful model in the World. It kind of takes the best aspects of capitalism and socialism and tries to avoid the downsides such as insane wealth inequaty of crony capitalism which not only creates unnecessory poverty/suffering but also destabilisizes democracy in oligarchic manner as demonstrated by Bloomberg. Nobody can works so hard or be so smart to really "earn" $60 billion. Not even Superman. It's wealth generated mostly by the workers, but all the money has gone to Bloomberg because of crony capitalism. Who thinks Bloomberg would have been less motivated to work if he had earned "only" $30 billion? Heck, I'm sure he would have been motived for "only" $30 million!! A lot of people are expected to be motivated to work for minimum wage struggling to make the ends meet. Bloomberg can spend 20 million a day for the rest of his life. Yes, a new Ferrari sports car and much more every single day! If that's not enough money I don't know what is.

Bloomberg's and Steyer's vanity projects cost together a billion dollars. Just imagine if that money had been used to tackle homelessness!

[Karl Henning]

I made some calculations about what the final delegate amounts could be for Biden and Sanders based on how the delegates have gone so far:

My estimate:

Biden 651 delegates
Sanders 662 delegates

Hard to say how this goes, but it's not impossible Bernie actually takes the delegate lead (thanks to California), but it's a close race nevertheless! 

If such pointless speculation gives you jollies ... wait for the California dust to settle, and there are more contests ahead,

[Florestan]

Social Democracy is based on regulated capitalism with welfare state and has been very successful model in the World. It kind of takes the best aspects of capitalism and socialism and tries to avoid the downsides such as insane wealth inequaty of crony capitalism

Very well.

Now please let us know what such insane downsides of socialism it tries to avoid --- because you gave us an example of insane capitalism only.

Or are you trying to tell us that only capitalism is bad and need regulation while socialism is perfect and need only to be expanded worldwide?

[SimonNZ]

In reality Bernie Sanders is a social democrat who mistakenly calls himself a democratic socialist.

Wow. Your arrogance extends to knowing better than Sanders how he should define his own politics.

[71 dB]

Very well.

Now please let us know what such insane downsides of socialism it tries to avoid --- because you gave us an example of insane capitalism only.

Or are you trying to tell us that only capitalism is bad and need regulation while socialism is perfect and need only to be expanded worldwide?

Sorry, I thought the downsides of socialism (lack of competition, innovation etc.) are well-known.

[Florestan]

Sorry, I thought the downsides of socialism (lack of competition, innovation etc.) are well-known.

Please explain us how the downsides of socialism (lack of competition, innovation etc.) will be eschewed in democratic socialism.

[71 dB]

Wow. Your arrogance extends to knowing better than Sanders how he should define his own politics.

Yeah, we progressives are that arrogant. 

[SimonNZ]

Yeah, we progressives are that arrogant. 

No, really: Sanders will have been studying socialism his whole life, will have read vastly more books than you on the subject (ie: more than zero), including the foundational texts, so what gives you the right to say he's mistaken about how he terms his political worldview?

Especially arrogant as I'm guessing everything you think you know about socialism comes from watching some Kyle rants.

[71 dB]

Please explain us how the downsides of socialism (lack of competition, innovation etc.) will be eschewed in democratic socialism.

What is this? School? That's the capitalism in social democracy (called democratic socialism by Bernie). Competition and innovation are the strengths of capitalism.