And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

[71 dB]

The rabid progressives not voting for Biden doesn't mean he's a weak candidate;  can you guess correctly what it does mean?

You drone on and on, but the fact is, the voters have spoken.

Losing the progressives means Biden need to get more independents and Trump voters. Good luck with that. As I said, the Corona virus mess may save Biden, but we will see. In the primary a lot of people vote for Biden because the corporate media has generated the electibility myth even when these people agree more with Bernie. However, in the general you don't vote for the more "electable". You vote for the lesser evil, that is if you vote at all...

[Karl Henning]

Losing the progressives means Biden need to get more independents and Trump voters.

Which means that unseating Trump is not the priority for the rabid Bernsters; thank you for conceding the moral bankruptcy.

Trump being better for progressives? Good luck with that.

[JBS]

Losing the progressives means Biden need to get more independents and Trump voters. Good luck with that. As I said, the Corona virus mess may save Biden, but we will see. In the primary a lot of people vote for Biden because the corporate media has generated the electibility myth even when these people agree more with Bernie. However, in the general you don't vote for the more "electable". You vote for the lesser evil, that is if you vote at all...

You keep missing the most important reason why Biden is electable and Sanders is not.

Republicans would be more motivated to vote against Sanders and his extreme leftism than against Biden.  Fewer people will vote for Trump now that Biden is the nominee.

As for the progressives, if they think Biden will continue Trump's crusade against immigrants, Trump's fight against the environment, Trump's attempts to gut voting rights and Obamacare, Trump's conservative judicial appointments, etc etc...then their judgment is seriously impaired.

[JBS]

It's not Sanders' fault Biden is a weak candidate. It's the fault of the corporate media and DNC these election are insanely rigged against progressives so that Dems keep sending corporate candidates against a fake populist to lose.

There is a chance the economy tanks so badly Trump loses to anyone and Biden gets to WH, but a lot of progressives won't vote for him.

Progressivism is not nearly as popular here as you think it is.

As of the end of 2019, the Democratic and Republican parties each had about 28% of Americans  as members. The remainder were either independents or members of the small third parties (Libertarians, etc).

In the primaries, the progressive candidates, Sanders and Warren mainly, got  less than half the votes in all but one (Nevada, where they got about 55%). The usual haul was 40% or less.

So that means at their best, progressive candidates got the votes of only 15% of the American public. Only one voter in six actually voted for progressivism.

[71 dB]

Which means that unseating Trump is not the priority for the rabid Bernsters; thank you for conceding the moral bankruptcy.

Trump being better for progressives? Good luck with that.

It may vary among progressives what is the priority. Removing Trump is very important, but it's not enough. The root problems which led to Trump must also be addressed. Otherwise there's a new Trump after Biden, because American political system in it's mechanisms to protect oligarchy clearly allows fascists (right wing populists), but not progressives (left wing populists) to become presidents. DNC is able to stop Bernie, but RNC wasn't able to stop Trump. Instead they became sycophants of Trump! Can you imagine Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi to become defenders of Bernie? That's what happened with the Republicans because it didn't harm the oligarchy!

Progressives don't know what to do!! The voice of progressives is silenced no matter what. Not voting for corporate Dems is the ONLY leverage progressives have in this system. The US should have more parties and one of them with real power should be for progressives. In the Finland we have 8 parties in the parliament, none of them having more than 25 % of popularity.

On the left we have The Left Party, The Social Democrats and The Green Party. These are three variations of leftism. The Left Party advocates improving the life of the poor, The Social Democrats try to improve things for the workers and The Green Party concentrates of the environmental things as the "future" party whose policies other parties adopt later on. These three parties agree on most things, but have also some disagreements. For example as the workers party The Social Democrats are not as much into environmental protection as The Green Party because environmental regulation can be at odds with jobs, but together these parties can come up with solutions which protect both jobs and environment.

On the center we have The Center Party which represents mostly people living in rural areas (the agriculture party). Also, there is the Swedish People's Party of Finland (6 % of Finns speak Swedish as they first language). The latter are moderate conservatives who are pro business, but also recognise the need to take care of the weak. They are also called cultivated bourgeois, close to The Green Party politically, but a notch more conservative.

On the right we have The National Coalition Party (for entrepreneurs and well educated rich people), Christian Democrats (for religious people) and The True Finns (for xenophobes)

So, in Finland one is likely to find a political party to vote for. A party which advocates at least one or two things important to you. I vote for The Green Party, but I could easily vote for The Left Party and also The Social Democrats and even The Swedish People's Party of Finland. I could NEVER vote for Christian Democrats and True Finns. Especially the latter of these has utterly disgusting agenda in my opinion. In fact True Finns and Green Party disagrees the most of all the parties in Finnish politics. In the US two parties share all the power, both of the parties being extremely right (apart from the progressive wing of the Dems) serving only the top 1 % while showing the middle finger to the 99 %. Progressives are just people who are aware of the situation and are sick and tired of seeing the finger. Biden advocates NONE of the issues important to for example Kyle Kulinski. Even if Biden said he is now suddenly for medicare for all, tuition free education, ending the wars, legalizing marihuana, living wage ($15 or more, not the $12 that Biden has advocated)... how can Kyle believe Biden would keep his promise when the records show us Biden has been lying for decades? If you study Biden's political career you'll see you can't trust him other than being part of the establishment, a member of the oligarchy. So, how does Biden EARN Kyle's vote? He has done NOTHING to earn it. Being a little less shitty than your rival is not enough for many progressives and they will stay home. If it takes another 4 years of Trump for the DNC to start taking the left seriously so be it... ...this is the only leverage the left has in oligarchy and since DNC plays it dirty with Bernie, the left will play it dirty with Biden!

[71 dB]

Progressivism is not nearly as popular here as you think it is.

As of the end of 2019, the Democratic and Republican parties each had about 28% of Americans  as members. The remainder were either independents or members of the small third parties (Libertarians, etc).

In the primaries, the progressive candidates, Sanders and Warren mainly, got  less than half the votes in all but one (Nevada, where they got about 55%). The usual haul was 40% or less.

So that means at their best, progressive candidates got the votes of only 15% of the American public. Only one voter in six actually voted for progressivism.

Progressives ideas are very popular. Just look at polls. Do you think that only 15 % of Americans are for $15 living wage or medicare for all? No, those are very popular. Majority of Americans support them according to the polls. In exit polls Medicare for all has been 50 % or higher in all primary states yet in many Biden won Bernie despite the former saying he would veto medicare for all and the latter having advocated medicare for all for decades! People are totally misled by the corporate media. They don't know the truth about the candidates and many voted for Biden because the corporate media has been saying Biden is most electable.

[71 dB]

You keep missing the most important reason why Biden is electable and Sanders is not.

Republicans would be more motivated to vote against Sanders and his extreme leftism than against Biden.  Fewer people will vote for Trump now that Biden is the nominee.

As for the progressives, if they think Biden will continue Trump's crusade against immigrants, Trump's fight against the environment, Trump's attempts to gut voting rights and Obamacare, Trump's conservative judicial appointments, etc etc...then their judgment is seriously impaired.

Voting for Trump and against Bernie doesn't give you two votes. It's still just one vote. In the rust belt many who voted for Trump would have voted for Bernie in 2016, and would have voted for him now. That's because Bernie is against outsourcing which DECIMATED these areas. People tolerate a lot of leftism if it means jobs so you can feed your family. Again, this is about LABELS. Americans have been brainwashed to fear "socialism", but they still LOVE the little social security they have. That's why lefty ideas are popular when asked in polls. The label od "socialism" is not there. Americans don't even know what the labels really mean.

Biden is perhaps a little better with immigrants, but probably far from good. Obama put children in cages just like Trump. Biden would be better, but not even close to what is needed. Status quo sucks! Judicial appointments is about the only reason to vote for Biden. This is not whether Biden is better, he is, but how DNC treads the left. Do you vote for people who do nothing but constantly spit on your face?

[Karl Henning]

Progressives ideas are very popular. Just look at polls.

The polls that matter are when people vote.

[Karl Henning]

Tulsi Gabbard shutters campaign, endorses Biden.

[Karl Henning]

You keep missing the most important reason why Biden is electable and Sanders is not.

Republicans would be more motivated to vote against Sanders and his extreme leftism than against Biden.  Fewer people will vote for Trump now that Biden is the nominee.

As for the progressives, if they think Biden will continue Trump's crusade against immigrants, Trump's fight against the environment, Trump's attempts to gut voting rights and Obamacare, Trump's conservative judicial appointments, etc etc...then their judgment is seriously impaired.

These are the plain facts which any sober American knows. That Poju persists in missing this seems to betoken an ideological barrier to processing fact.

[71 dB]

Tulsi Gabbard shutters campaign, endorses Biden.

Amazing, anti war candidate endorses for war candidate instead of Bernie who is agaisnt war. I don't get this

the funny thing is of Biden and Trump, Trump might be the anti-war one.

[71 dB]

The polls that matter are when people vote.

If you are principled you say the same if Trump beats Biden in November...

[drogulus]

If you are principled you say the same if Trump beats Biden in November...

     Tooshay.....and you're right that many proposals the left supports are more popular than the candidates most closely associated with them. Sanders insists on playing the role of radical outsider for all it's worth, it's in his bloodstream and not subject to much modification.

[JBS]

Progressives ideas are very popular. Just look at polls. Do you think that only 15 % of Americans are for $15 living wage or medicare for all? No, those are very popular. Majority of Americans support them according to the polls. In exit polls Medicare for all has been 50 % or higher in all primary states yet in many Biden won Bernie despite the former saying he would veto medicare for all and the latter having advocated medicare for all for decades! People are totally misled by the corporate media. They don't know the truth about the candidates and many voted for Biden because the corporate media has been saying Biden is most electable.

The polls that suggest wide support for MfA are the ones that simply ask if people would like government to pay for all their health care.   The only surprise with such a poll is that more people don't say yes.

But polls which ask if people would accept the stuff that goes along with Medicare, the high bureaucracy. the lower quality of care, the higher taxes, the fact that because of premiums and codeductibles,  the cost to the individual will remain rather high....those polls  show less enthusiasm. 

Stop thinking people vote based on corporate propaganda.  People vote because they see the policies a candidate proposes, and can judge for themselves what the actual consequences are, and how much chance those polices have of making it into law, and the chances of the candidate to get elected. 

Also remember that MfA is just one of the many progressive programs that Bernie wants to implement.  Most of them are even more intrusive, and therefore less popular, than MfA.

[JBS]

Amazing, anti war candidate endorses for war candidate instead of Bernie who is agaisnt war. I don't get this

the funny thing is of Biden and Trump, Trump might be the anti-war one.

Maybe Tulsi thinks Biden has a good chance of beating Trump, and Bernie not at all.  Maybe Tulsi realizes that Biden is less beholden to the military industrial complex and the bankers than Kyle tells you.

[Karl Henning]

If you are principled you say the same if Trump beats Biden in November...

It's a deal.

[Karl Henning]

The polls that suggest wide support for MfA are the ones that simply ask if people would like government to pay for all their health care.   The only surprise with such a poll is that more people don't say yes.

But polls which ask if people would accept the stuff that goes along with Medicare, the high bureaucracy. the lower quality of care, the higher taxes, the fact that because of premiums and codeductibles,  the cost to the individual will remain rather high....those polls  show less enthusiasm. 

Stop thinking people vote based on corporate propaganda.  People vote because they see the policies a candidate proposes, and can judge for themselves what the actual consequences are, and how much chance those polices have of making it into law, and the chances of the candidate to get elected. 

Also remember that MfA is just one of the many progressive programs that Bernie wants to implement.  Most of them are even more intrusive, and therefore less popular, than MfA.

Kvetching about "corporate propaganda" is such a mental crutch for him, I doubt he is principled enough to consider that he may be dead wrong.

[Daverz]

The polls that matter are when people vote.

At least in the US, that doesn't actually matter, either.

[71 dB]

At least in the US, that doesn't actually matter, either.

Looks like that. Texas lost 70.000 votes I believe. Some people say that was made to make Biden the winner... 

[Daverz]

Looks like that. Texas lost 70.000 votes I believe. Some people say that was made to make Biden the winner... 

Sorry, I was alluding to the Electoral College.  But yeah, voter suppression as well.  Not that I think Bernie had a chance stolen from him.  I think the voters are just scared, so they made what seemed like a safe choice.  I also think people are voting for a Biden they remember from 2008, the guy who made Paul Ryan look like the phony dork he was.  But whatever my reservations about the Biden of 2020, a Democratic win in November means much, much more competent governance -- simply non-malevolent governance -- going forward.