And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

[Florestan]

You mean that as a good or as a bad thing, cher ami?

What do you think?

Gregorio Marañón's definition of what being a "liberal" (in the European sense) means:

1) Always be ready to discuss with those who have a different opinion than yours.
2) Never accept that the end can justify the means.

Nice program. Also a good explanation why genuine liberalism is on the wane, not only in Europe but worldwide.

Speaking of Maranon, I greatly enjoyed this essay of his:

Liberalism and Communism: The Background of the Spanish Civil War

[71 dB]

I won't claim that I have the answer(s) to that. Some time ago, you complained about other people's attitude against you in The Diner, and you said that therefore you did not like it here. I kinda adviced you to ignore The Diner and blabber along about music. You took it as an insult, whilst I did not mean it like that.

I apologize if I made you feel I rejected your advices. I think it was a time when I was really frustrated so I certainly wasn't a very nice guy. I try to "blabber along about music", but most of the time my posts don't get much attention so those posts of mine don't go far. Politics is another beast as you have seen. Now that I am losing my interest of US politics being less active in the politics treads is easier for me. Even now I am talking about my behavior rather than politics!

What I tried to make clear is this: the history of this board has shown that, apparently, loads of people here have been saying repeatedly that you should change your opinions and behaviour. And you haven't. This is not something about 'good' or 'bad', it is simply stating a fact. Those who get annoyed by you and therefore want you to change your behaviour, have done this in vain, for about 15 years. Yet, they still continue to tell you to change it. And you won't, I'm sure about that. So, if they don't want to confront themselves with it and don't want to get annoyed by it, then I guess it's best that they just ignore you. Because, unless they have proof that you insult other people too much too often, there is probably no reason for admin or any mod to silence you.

Well, asking me to change my opinions is rather silly. We all have our opinions and are entitled to have them. I can change behavior if needed, but it's perhaps easier for others to see the problems. I consider myself a normal human being who gets frustrated online and has episodes of meltdown sometimes. I have assumed it's normal 21st century life. I have been trying to not insult others lately. I don't call others idiots and imbeciles. Karl does (doesn't matter because I stopped taking him seriously).

I'd like to add this: we've seen good people leave this board because of the toxic atmosphere in The Diner. Apparently they were not able to ignore it. Personally, I feel bad when interesting members leave GMG because of such reasons. I prefer them to stay. Hence my advice to ignore the members or even sections that you don't like. Especially since Rob has stated that he is not gonna delete The Diner, and that no member is gonna be blocked/banned unless he/she has gone way too far with insulting/degrading behaviour.

That's all. I hope you understand me better now.

The problem with ignore is that someone whose posts you may want to ignore in Diner, you may want to see elsewhere. For example Karl has good non-political posts (classical music) which I value, but his political posts are often poison to me.

Thanks for trying to clear things up. All I can say is not all people have mental balance making it possible for them to not behave badly online.

[71 dB]

71db's idea of how it would work is a fantasy.

Everything is impossible before made possible. A lot of things have been called fantasy before made reality. Corporate media likes to use smears such as "pie in the sky" when they want to made something totally possible look impossible.

[Karl Henning]

Well, asking me to change my opinions is rather silly.

Only for people who refuse to consider that they may be mistaken.

[71 dB]

Only for people who refuse to consider that they may be mistaken.

If you think I am mistaken about something how about presenting me convincing arguments to change my mind? Just asking someone to change their opinion is silly. Giving them a reason to do it is another thing.

[JBS]

If you think I am mistaken about something how about presenting me convincing arguments to change my mind? Just asking someone to change their opinion is silly. Giving them a reason to do it is another thing.

We've done that plenty of times. Facts and reasons. You invariably wave them away as corporate propaganda and media smears because they conflict with your preconcieved notions.  We should start calling you brainwashed.

[Karl Henning]

If you think I am mistaken about something how about presenting me convincing arguments to change my mind? Just asking someone to change their opinion is silly. Giving them a reason to do it is another thing.

As your non-processing of JBS's posts demonstrates, you do not hear reason.

[milk]

Any chance they can dump Biden for Cuomo? Long shot, huh.

[71 dB]

As your non-processing of JBS's posts demonstrates, you do not hear reason.

My prosessing tells me he fears goverment bureaucracy more than I do. For him Bernie's weakness is his policies increase goverment bureaucracy. I don't care, if the same policies improve people's lives, which I believe they do. Bernie's housing policies may have problems, but at least he is trying to get roof over peoples heads. How about Biden? What's his policy? No bureaucracy nor roof over head?

Anyway, this doesn't matter anymore as Bernie won't be the president. His policies won't be implemented.

[Iota]

Any chance they can dump Biden for Cuomo? Long shot, huh.

Cuomo himself has ruled it out apparently, but from my very peripheral and recent acquaintance with him, he seems so frank and grounded compared to Trump (though perhaps not a remarkably difficult feat) and the contrast so stark, that your query seems very natural.
There are people who shine in adversity and then disappoint when the storm passes, and from what I read I suspect there are a number of things I'd dislike about his politics, but since he has hoved into view internationally, I must admit has struck quite an impressive figure and would seem to me, from the Dems point of view, a pretty good foil for Trump.

[Karl Henning]

My prosessing tells me he fears goverment bureaucracy more than I do.

Your "processing" is failed; you only hear what you want to hear, and regurgitate your tedious boilerplate ad infinitum.

[Karl Henning]

Any chance they can dump Biden for Cuomo? Long shot, huh.

One problem is, the voters. No one has voted for Cuomo to serve as the nominee.  "long shot" doesn't begin to cover it.

[Karl Henning]

There are people who shine in adversity and then disappoint when the storm passes....

Giuliani springs to mind.

[71 dB]

Your "processing" is failed; you only hear what you want to hear, and regurgitate your tedious boilerplate ad infinitum.

At least I am not the only one with failed processing: Millions of people have voted for Bernie and donated money to him. All those people think Bernie is a good candidate that would improve their lives. They only hear what they want to hear.

[71 dB]

One problem is, the voters. No one has voted for Cuomo to serve as the nominee.

That's not a problem for the oligarchs. People voting for the wrong people like Bernie and Tulsi is a nuisance for them.

[Herman]

This is a strange discussion, going on and on for several pages.

If you (impersonal you) find a certain poster annoying, stupid or whatever, the thing to do is NOT pay attention any more. Writing censurous replies won't help, as has been amply proven. People have limited learning abilities, certainly on the internet.

Just let it go.

BTW The Diner is not really "a toxic place", compared to other net places.

[Karl Henning]

That's not a problem for the oligarchs. People voting for the wrong people like Bernie and Tulsi is a nuisance for them.

[Marc]

This is a strange discussion, going on and on for several pages.

If you (impersonal you) find a certain poster annoying, stupid or whatever, the thing to do is NOT pay attention any more. Writing censurous replies won't help, as has been amply proven. People have limited learning abilities, certainly on the internet.

Just let it go.

BTW The Diner is not really "a toxic place", compared to other net places.

Full agreement with the first part.

But I prefer not to compare 'our' board with the true antisocial and toxic filth on other parts of the world wide web.
Here, people are mocking each other and loathing other person's thougts and posts. It's just not necessary, imho, because no one seems to be willing to change their position and opinion anyway. The pot calling the kettle black and vice versa.

Let there be... peace. 0:)



GO, BERNIE, GO!

[MusicTurner]

Your "processing" is failed; you only hear what you want to hear, and regurgitate your tedious boilerplate ad infinitum.

If not yet 'ad infinitum' on the forum, the continued series of solely personal attacks on a poster is probably close to record-breaking. The claimed reason being partly, because the site's 'Ignore Function' is not working to stop one seeing posts ... And then perpetually accusing him, in the lowest wordings possible, of childish behaviour ... it just doesn't add up.

[71 dB]

This is your processing of my posts Karl? Repeated posting of some "animalistic" gifs like a Pavlovian dog reacting to my "Bernie bro" stimulus? Your behavior has become almost entertainment for me in it's silliness and predictable nature. So, you are the adult in the room? I am a toddler in diapers running around wearing a miniature Bernie T-shirt? I think I have established a good reason not to take you seriously (here).