And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

[Todd]

Who's Justin Amash?

An irrelevance.

[Todd]

That means there could conceivably be two WrestleMania veterans in presidential debates!

[71 dB]

Quite the reverse. Trump's complete mismanagement in this crisis is a good example of why government involvement in health care can be a bad thing.  The various financial subsidies and stimuli are another demonstration that, while everyone is equal, some people are more equal than others, and government help is given not according to need but according to who shouts the loudest. (Which happens in all political systems. It's not a result of oligarchy. It's a result of governments not being omniscient and therefore dependent on people bringing problems to the attention of governments.)

No, Obama is a pragmatic politician who wants his party's nominee to win in November.

What involvement? The lack of involvement is the problem. When Amwerican's lose their healthcare due to losing their jobs there is NO  goverment involvement. It's all corporate involvement and that's the problem because corporate for-profit model DOES NOT work with healthcare. Never has, never will, because incentives are insane. I said this 100 times even before Covid-19 and now my message is even clearer. However, you haven't changed your opinions at all. That is telling. Is there ever any evidence that can change your mind about anything?


Newsweek:

newly released poll shows that 69 percent of registered voters support Medicare for All, a plan which would create a national health insurance plan available for all Americans.

The poll also showed 46 percent of Republican voters supporting Medicare for All alongside 88 percent of Democrats and 68 percent of Independents.

https://www.newsweek.com/69-percent-americans-want-medicare-all-including-46-percent-republicans-new-poll-says-1500187

So, good luck with a candidate who doesn't appeal to voters under 45, suffers from sexual harrashment accusations and can barely speak full sentencies due to cognitive decline. Name recognition, corporate myth of electability, nostalgia of Obama years and massive establishment support gives him the nomination, but those things won't help much in November and now his hopes of winning are in the Covid-19 crisis brutally exposing Trump's incompetence.

[JBS]

One of just two reasons to vote for Amash, the other being he hasn't sexually assaulted anyone.

I'd rather Biden chooses a good VP.

Actually Todd should be more enthusiastic about Amash. A President who is from neither major party would screw up the system even more,  and that's Todd's preferred outcome, after all.

[Todd]

Actually Todd should be more enthusiastic about Amash. A President who is from neither major party would screw up the system even more,  and that's Todd's preferred outcome, after all.

Amash cannot match Trump in damaging the international system, and he cannot match Biden for ineffectual management of Democrat infighting.  He's an irrelevance.  The US can't have a "good" president until after Biden.

Is Todd an anarchist?

No.

[JBS]

What involvement? The lack of involvement is the problem. When Amwerican's lose their healthcare due to losing their jobs there is NO  goverment involvement. It's all corporate involvement and that's the problem because corporate for-profit model DOES NOT work with healthcare. Never has, never will, because incentives are insane. I said this 100 times even before Covid-19 and now my message is even clearer. However, you haven't changed your opinions at all. That is telling. Is there ever any evidence that can change your mind about anything?


Newsweek:

newly released poll shows that 69 percent of registered voters support Medicare for All, a plan which would create a national health insurance plan available for all Americans.

The poll also showed 46 percent of Republican voters supporting Medicare for All alongside 88 percent of Democrats and 68 percent of Independents.

https://www.newsweek.com/69-percent-americans-want-medicare-all-including-46-percent-republicans-new-poll-says-1500187

So, good luck with a candidate who doesn't appeal to voters under 45, suffers from sexual harrashment accusations and can barely speak full sentencies due to cognitive decline. Name recognition, corporate myth of electability, nostalgia of Obama years and massive establishment support gives him the nomination, but those things won't help much in November and now his hopes of winning are in the Covid-19 crisis brutally exposing Trump's incompetence.

You leave me speechless at times.
It's got nothing to do with insurance. The people who lost insurance because they lost their jobs either can maintain their current insurance through COBRA, or get on Medicaid, or find other insurance through the ACA exchanges.  But the problems we have with the virus are directly tied to government not doing what it's supposed to.

Trump's administration screwed up testing and PPE inventories.  That's why the US is so far behind in dealing with coronavirus, and having such trouble getting out of lockdown phase.   And the problem was not so much with Trump as with the bureaucracies in place at the FDA and CDC, the two agencies most relevant to health care. That's not an argument for increasing government's role in health care. It's a demonstration of why you should be wary of increasing government's role.

[arpeggio]

Biden and the alleged assault.

Republicans are the biggest phonies on the face of the earth.  I really do not care if you are offended.

If Trump can be President with his background and Kavanaugh can be a Justice than Biden can be president.

[Que]

If Trump can be President with his background and Kavanaugh can be a Justice than Biden can be president.

That's a worrying track record for a "civilised" country....

Aren't you guys able to elect or appoint remotely decent people into high office? 
I mean, handsy septuagenarians? 

Not that this is a uniquely American problem... As Plato already pointed out, high office attracts the wrong (immoral) kind of people.

More women in high office would definitely be a step in the right direction.
Generally speaking, of course.... Recently watched a long documentary on Hillary Clinton, to which she participated.
Her demonisation seemed to me totally uncalled for, but I wasn't terribly impresed by her personality either.

Q

[71 dB]

Bernie Sanders facing increased pressure to unsuspend his campaign

[71 dB]

You leave me speechless at times.
It's got nothing to do with insurance. The people who lost insurance because they lost their jobs either can maintain their current insurance through COBRA, or get on Medicaid, or find other insurance through the ACA exchanges.  But the problems we have with the virus are directly tied to government not doing what it's supposed to.

So WHY are MILLIONS of Americans lacking healthcare if they can maintain their current insurance through COBRA, or get on Medicaid, or find other insurance through the ACA exchanges. Maybe it's because they can't?

Trump's administration screwed up testing and PPE inventories.  That's why the US is so far behind in dealing with coronavirus, and having such trouble getting out of lockdown phase.   And the problem was not so much with Trump as with the bureaucracies in place at the FDA and CDC, the two agencies most relevant to health care. That's not an argument for increasing government's role in health care. It's a demonstration of why you should be wary of increasing government's role.

Americans elected a clown as their president and are now paying the price. Had they elected Bernie Sanders in 2016 they would be now in a MUCH MUCH better place. They could have done that voting for Bernie overhelmingly in the primary and the general, but in their stupidity they allowed the establishment had it's way. Even with Hillary Clinton things would be better.

[Madiel]

Trump's administration screwed up testing and PPE inventories.  That's why the US is so far behind in dealing with coronavirus, and having such trouble getting out of lockdown phase.   And the problem was not so much with Trump as with the bureaucracies in place at the FDA and CDC, the two agencies most relevant to health care. That's not an argument for increasing government's role in health care. It's a demonstration of why you should be wary of increasing government's role.

Agreed as to what got screwed up. But more specifically it's a demonstration of a particular government being bad at its job. Given that plenty of other governments managed this job a hell of a lot better.

It can't be extrapolated to 'government' in the abstract. However, whether it should make you wary of increasing the US government's role rather depends on what can be done to make the US government more functional.  Various forces have been happily diminishing its ability to function for a number of decades, and then they say "See? "Government" doesn't work!"

[Todd]

Given that plenty of other governments managed this job a hell of a lot better.

Which ones?

[Madiel]

Which ones?

I live in a country with a far higher testing rate (despite Trump's ridiculous claims to the contrary), and fewer than 100 deaths. So I'm pretty happy with how things have gone here. A couple of international studies have said Australia has had the best rate of detecting infections in the whole world.

South Korea slammed the breaks on the infection, hard. New Zealand. Taiwan.  None of these countries just left it to the private sector!

[Madiel]

I mean, if you want to see just how countries are doing with dealing this, one of the simplest metrics is to look at cases per million people and deaths per million people.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

One can also look at curves to see how this is progressing in different countries. Sorry to say but the USA has a long way to go to flatten its curve. And the big delay in testing is a huge factor in that.  Something that has been widely acknowledged.

EDIT: This site is probably the easiest one to look at curves and progress. https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus?fbclid=IwAR30O0E9rdodEqRJbnSkkomdTSjPZeg5g4hsDHeLTX1s78gUvIgBG6IBnfM

[71 dB]

Agreed as to what got screwed up. But more specifically it's a demonstration of a particular government being bad at its job. Given that plenty of other governments managed this job a hell of a lot better.

Yes. Also, who else can do the job of this kind other than the government? Aetna closing the schools and restricting people's freedom? I don't think so...

It can't be extrapolated to 'government' in the abstract. However, whether it should make you wary of increasing the US government's role rather depends on what can be done to make the US government more functional.  Various forces have been happily diminishing its ability to function for a number of decades, and then they say "See? "Government" doesn't work!"

Yep. Take away funding of public schools and then turn around and say public schools suck. Of course they suck because you took the funding away! Same with Medicare. Of course it has problems when it's underfunded!

[Todd]

I live in a country with a far higher testing rate (despite Trump's ridiculous claims to the contrary), and fewer than 100 deaths. So I'm pretty happy with how things have gone here.

South Korea slammed the breaks on the infection, hard. New Zealand. Taiwan.  None of these countries just left it to the private sector!

New Zealand is not a particularly relevant example given some unique characteristics of the nation, but it is true, using objective measurements, that Pacific Rim countries have so far done a much better job than the US and even more so than most of Europe in dealing with Covid.  Public health officials at the federal and, more importantly, the state level should study the responses in Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, Singapore, Germany, and even China to see what worked and what didn't.  It will be possible to apply some of what was done in those countries to the US, but some things just will not fly.  Some things would violate the Constitution - only important if you believe in the rule of law - and it is important, crucial even, that people recognize that the US must and does follow a different response model.  US states are much more important in dealing with situations like this; the federal government acts primarily as a source of financial and physical resources and public health guidance.  It cannot simply impose rules on states, as Trump has found out.  It does not have the authority.  It can use extortionate appropriations to force desired state level behaviors (eg, National Minimum Drinking Age Act), but that's a long term solution with many problems.

Since PPE, testing, and medical treatments are now a focus, the US will do one thing it does better than any other country on earth: throw ridiculous amounts of money at the problem.  Production of and availability of these resources will ramp up for the rest of the year, into next year, and if Biden wins and the Dems take the House and Senate, then longer-term programs with funding in the tens of billions will be established.  (Smart/crafty/evil, take your pick, Republicans will sneak in sunset clauses, ensuring that these issues will linger for years.)  Low margin businesses have become and will continue to be lucrative, so the private sector will play its part, which of course it must in a pandemic; governments only consume, they do not produce.

On an anecdotal level, one of my employees has a child who works for the OHA.  As such, I was hearing, second hand naturally, about Covid regularly before the first case was diagnosed in the US.  While I do use federal sites and other national/world sites for information, the OHA's daily update emails have more pertinent information for me and directly translate into what I should consider doing every single day.  Again, state level resources are of more value than federal level resources on a real-world basis.  That's how it always is.

[Karl Henning]

Not that this is a uniquely American problem... As Plato already pointed out, high office attracts the wrong (immoral) kind of people.


Q

And, power corrupts ....

[Madiel]

Australia is a federation. Do your homework. All of our shutdowns are being done by States.

To a considerable extent our governance model and constitution was BASED ON yours.

The difference is, we have a national coordinating cabinet that's come together, instead of a federal leader tweeting about liberating Michigan.

So maybe reread all those excuses about how you can't possibly operate in the same way and realise how pathetic they are.

[Todd]

Australia is a federation. Do your homework. All of our shutdowns are being done by States.

To a considerable extent our governance model and constitution was BASED ON yours.

The difference is, we have a national coordinating cabinet that's come together, instead of a federal leader tweeting about liberating Michigan.

So maybe reread all those excuses about how you can't possibly operate in the same way and realise how pathetic they are.

How many times are you going to edit your post?  It was originally only one line.

Anyway, you obviously missed the sentence where I stated that Pacific Rim countries have done a much better job than the US, and the one where I wrote that officials should study the responses of countries including Australia.  Reading is hard.

[Madiel]

I did read all of that. I did also read not just your post but the one after it, about how being federal made you terribly special.

Reading is indeed hard, because apparently you only know some of what's been written and can't recognise when I'm responding to the other bits.