Coronavirus thread

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Cuomo issued the order March 20. I think people have continued to travel north. Local towns have restricted AirB&B (hugely popular rental service) stays to 2 weeks and offers for rental properties keep popping up.
Supermarkets have been horrible since early March. The urbanites have greatly increased local population, and they also hoard to an offensive degree. I go to farmstands or out-of-the-way places to shop for produce or tofu (I'm vegetarian). Fortunately, many local  businesses which would otherwise be closed have begun acting as conduits for local farmers, so the situation is improving. However, one has to make multiple stops and plan to visit only after wholesaler deliveries.

I had suspected as much (re travel); can't believe that people are still trying to rent out properties right now!  Can the police do anything about those? Good to hear that the farmers have sources to sell their produce to.  What kind of businesses are offering their produce for sale?  I'm grateful that we have various farmers markets not too far away.  In warmer weather, you can also see a fair number of farm stands set up alongside roads in front of farms and they go by the honor system too.  Choose your produce and put your money in a lock box (nowadays chained/secured to the stand); one used to be able to make change....ah, the good ole days.  You sometimes hear about someone's box being stolen.   

Wondering whether or not this is commonly done in other countries?  I'd like to think so (not the being stolen part).

Best wishes,

PD

[MusicTurner]

I saw an interesting article about outdoor exercise:
https://www.cyclingnews.com/features/belgian-study-on-safe-distancing-while-exercising-goes-viral/
Apparently moving hikers, runners, cyclists etc. have an increased "safe distance" due to aerodynamic effects, especially in the "slipstream".
That's topical in my area - rural but 3 hours from NYC, overwhelmed with renters and second home owners from the metro area. Rail trails, bike paths, hiking trails have become overcrowded and a bit scary.

Yes, the fast biker's slipstream is a thing, particularly because speed does something to us.

We become less concerned about the slow people.

I cannot help but see dichotomies opening everywhere. Whether it's young people vs old vulnerable people, or careful, concerned people and those who need to act as if they're Lance Armstrong...

This very worrying story has quickly been promoted by many newspapers on an international scale, but usually without any critical comments.

If taken seriously, it would more or less mean that staying indoor in urban areas with a good deal of cyclists and runners on the streets would be the only way to avoid the virus - or that runners and cyclists had to be banned. Since keeping a distance of 20 m to the nearest cyclist would be impossible, and with public transport being not recommended in many places, it would mean that people would be quite 'grounded' indoor.

However, the Belgian study seems to have been accepted much too early - this article more or less debunks the apparent conclusions as being much too hasty and not really reliable:
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/v74az9/the-viral-study-about-runners-spreading-coronavirus-is-not-actually-a-study

That said, I feel uncomfortable with heavy-breathing runners in particular, and I try to keep a good deal of distance to them when in town, mostly on my bicycle. Similarly, I keep distance to other cyclists and passing pedestrians on the sidewalk. And I try to keep my mouth shut ... Many of the runners just don't seem to have a similar politeness. In Copenhagen, it's been tried to put up signs saying "one-way paths for runners" in the parks, but only with limited results, since it's only partly being lived up to by them.

[MusicTurner]

Oxford university people hoping to have a vaccine ready for general use maybe in September 2020, says professor Sarah Gilbert.
Testing should begin in a couple of weeks.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ee596cb8-7b71-11ea-a9b3-a42d54022bdc

(paywall for the complete article)

[Pohjolas Daughter]

This very worrying story has quickly been promoted by many newspapers on an international scale, but usually without any critical comments.

If taken seriously, it would more or less mean that staying indoor in urban areas with a good deal of cyclists and runners on the streets would be the only way to avoid the virus - or that runners and cyclists had to be banned. Since keeping a distance of 20 m to the nearest cyclist would be impossible.

However, the Belgian study seems to have been accepted much too early - this article more or less debunks the apparent conclusions as being much too hasty
and not really reliable:
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/v74az9/the-viral-study-about-runners-spreading-coronavirus-is-not-actually-a-study

That said, I feel uncomfortable with heavy-breathing runners in particular, and I try to keep a good deal of distance to them when in town, mostly on my bicycle. Similarly, I keep distance to other cyclists and passing pedestrians on the sidewalk. Many of the runners just don't seem to have a similar politeness. In Copenhagen, it's been tried to put up signs saying "one-way paths for runners" in the parks, but only with limited results, since it's only partly being lived up to by them.

I remember hearing something on the news not too long ago basically saying that as fast as you are, you can't outrun a sneeze.  I saw one article saying that a sneeze can travel up to 93 mph! 

[Karl Henning]

You can find official NY State rundown (with a lag of 1 to 2 days) at https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-Map

In counties outside the metropolitan area, I suspect so little testing is being done that it's impossible to draw any sensible conclusions. I'll spare you any more links, but every county has one (with a similar lag of 1-2 days). For instance, Delaware County (rural county just West of me) has only conducted 353 tests to date.
[Karl, some of your music was performed in Stamford (Delaware Co.) a few years ago. I would have gone, but there was a big snowstorm.]

I remember that snowstorm! It's kind of you to remember the occasion!

[Karl Henning]

Can't see the article, but sounds like good news--which we need now more than ever!   

There's an algorithm that's baffling me; the Globe says the coronavirus articles are available generally, but I am chancing to try to share articles which are subscriber-only.

[T. D.]

This very worrying story has quickly been promoted by many newspapers on an international scale, but usually without any critical comments.

If taken seriously, it would more or less mean that staying indoor in urban areas with a good deal of cyclists and runners on the streets would be the only way to avoid the virus - or that runners and cyclists had to be banned. Since keeping a distance of 20 m to the nearest cyclist would be impossible. and with public transport being not recommended in many places, it would mean that people would be quite 'grounded' indoor.

However, the Belgian study seems to have been accepted much too early - this article more or less debunks the apparent conclusions as being much too hasty promoted and not really reliable:
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/v74az9/the-viral-study-about-runners-spreading-coronavirus-is-not-actually-a-study

That said, I feel uncomfortable with heavy-breathing runners in particular, and I try to keep a good deal of distance to them when in town, mostly on my bicycle. Similarly, I keep distance to other cyclists and passing pedestrians on the sidewalk. And I try to keep my mouth shut ... Many of the runners just don't seem to have a similar politeness. In Copenhagen, it's been tried to put up signs saying "one-way paths for runners" in the parks, but only with limited results, since it's only partly being lived up to by them.

Good points. I must (selfishly) admit that I live in a remote rural area, so it's easy to maintain extreme distances while exercising.
However, I pass by parking lots / trailheads for hiking trails and "rail trails" (multiuse paths) and see high numbers of cars, so I suspect some unsafe behavior is occurring.

[T. D.]

I had suspected as much (re travel); can't believe that people are still trying to rent out properties right now!  Can the police do anything about those? Good to hear that the farmers have sources to sell their produce to.  What kind of businesses are offering their produce for sale?  I'm grateful that we have various farmers markets not too far away.  In warmer weather, you can also see a fair number of farm stands set up alongside roads in front of farms and they go by the honor system too.  Choose your produce and put your money in a lock box (nowadays chained/secured to the stand); one used to be able to make change....ah, the good ole days.  You sometimes hear about someone's box being stolen.   

Wondering whether or not this is commonly done in other countries?  I'd like to think so (not the being stolen part).

Best wishes,

PD

Yes, in my area I still see people operating this way. Usually individuals or families who have a box on a post at the end of their driveways.

[MusicTurner]

Good points. I must (selfishly) admit that I live in a remote rural area, so it's easy to maintain extreme distances while exercising.
However, I pass by parking lots / trailheads for hiking trails and "rail trails" (multiuse paths) and see high numbers of cars, so I suspect some unsafe behavior is occurring.

In some ways, a big privilege these days, provided one can buy provisions relatively easily & keep a sufficient income ...

[Irons]

Am I wrong thinking Kayaking is a great way to do social distancing... 

You are not wrong but enjoying yourself is. With NHS staff working 12 hour shifts you can't have idiots poncing around.

The guy I mentioned earlier in the thread diagnosed with coronavirus has returned home from hospital. I don't know him personally but what I am hearing is not good. He is very weak but worse then that is the psychological hit, he is very emotional. In a bed opposite was a chap in a bad way, he thrashed his arms about as if he was drowning and shortly after died. For fellow patients and medical staff to witness scenes like this will lead to depression and other problems in the future. 

[Pohjolas Daughter]

In some ways, a big privilege these days, provided one can buy provisions relatively easily & keep a sufficient income ...

Home gardens/community gardens (allotments) can be a godsend!

[MusicTurner]

Home gardens/community gardens (allotments) can be a godsend!

Indeed. Unfortunately, they tend to cost a fortune in my city, not to mention summer houses (where going there now is more problematic however, also for the locals in summer house areas)

[Pohjolas Daughter]

You are not wrong but enjoying yourself is. With NHS staff working 12 hour shifts you can't have idiots poncing around.

The guy I mentioned earlier in the thread diagnosed with coronavirus has returned home from hospital. I don't know him personally but what I am hearing is not good. He is very weak but worse then that is the psychological hit, he is very emotional. In a bed opposite was a chap in a bad way, he thrashed his arms about as if he was drowning and shortly after died. For fellow patients and medical staff to witness scenes like this will lead to depression and other problems in the future.

I think that the concerns are them interacting with locals (be it shopping for food...with resources possibly already strained for the locals), lodging locally, etc.

Horrible to read about that man.  I think that I missed your earlier posting about him.  Is this someone who lives in your area?  In any event, yes, hard for anyone who has to witness things like that even once.  Can't imagine day after day of witnessing similar things.  Hard enough to listen to/read the news much even without being inflicted with the virus (knock on wood).   

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Indeed. Unfortunately, they tend to cost a fortune in my city, not to mention summer houses (where going there now is more problematic however, also for the locals in summer house areas)

MT,

Do you have any community gardens in Copenhagen?

Are co-ops popular in Denmark?  They can be helpful to keep food, etc. costs down.  I belong to one in my area.

PD

[MusicTurner]

MT,

Do you have any community gardens in Copenhagen?

Are co-ops popular in Denmark?  They can be helpful to keep food, etc. costs down.  I belong to one in my area.

PD

Yes, we have a thing called 'haveforening' ~garden association, or 'koloni-haver', ~gardens-somewhat-away, where you can also have a small cabin. They can be very cozy https://www.kolonihave-kreds1.dk/index.php/haveoversigt/haveoversigt/tag/2450%20SV
I think they exist in many countries & have seen them all European countries as well, but those abroad are not a subject I know much about.

Unofficially, some people stay there overnight at times. Due to the virus, regulations have now been lifted, so that you are able to stay there for longer periods. They are very sought after, expensive, and normally one has to be on a list for many years to obtain one, at least in city areas ... migration to cities and gentrification have contributed to making them more difficult to obtain.

Community gardens belonging to blocks are also becoming more popular nowadays, but slowly - corresponding to the efforts of making the city an even greener place.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Yes, we have a thing called 'haveforening' ~garden association, or 'koloni-haver', ~gardens-somewhat-away, where you can also have a small cabin. They can be very cozy https://www.kolonihave-kreds1.dk/index.php/haveoversigt/haveoversigt/tag/2450%20SV
I think they exist in many countries & have seen them all European countries as well, but those abroad are not a subject I know much about.

Unofficially, some people stay there overnight at times. Due to the virus, regulations have now been lifted, so that you are able to stay there for longer periods. They are very sought after, expensive, and normally one has to be on a list for many years to obtain one, at least in city areas ... migration to cities and gentrification have contributed to making them more difficult to obtain.

Community gardens belonging to blocks are also becoming more popular nowadays, but slowly - corresponding to the efforts of making the city an even greener place.

Thank you for telling me about them.  How neat!  I'm guessing that they were originally designed to be garden sheds but ended up morphing into tiny cabins?  And no proper plumbing?  Does one rent one of them from the city?  My guess would be that those with nicer cabins would be more expensive too?  Oh!  I just looked at a different community's ones:  theirs are quite a bit larger and I'm guessing might include plumbing and a way to cook too?  And maybe electricity?  In any event, very pretty!  Looks very relaxing too (though gardening can be a lot of work--I know!).

[drogulus]

     How Europe manages to keep a lid on coronavirus unemployment while it spikes in the U.S.

     It's not a how question. You do what's needed or you howyougonna the economy to death, the good old American way.

[MusicTurner]

Thank you for telling me about them.  How neat!  I'm guessing that they were originally designed to be garden sheds but ended up morphing into tiny cabins?  And no proper plumbing?  Does one rent one of them from the city?  My guess would be that those with nicer cabins would be more expensive too?  Oh!  I just looked at a different community's ones:  theirs are quite a bit larger and I'm guessing might include plumbing and a way to cook too?  And maybe electricity?  In any event, very pretty!  Looks very relaxing too (though gardening can be a lot of work--I know!).

Conditions and facilities vary from place to place, often they are gardens with a small cabin for day use, but not always ... one needs to contact the individual association, not the city municipality, to be on waiting list. Originally they were meant for poor people and workers, and they expanded during the social-democratic movement's built-up of the welfare state.

When I search the web for one that is for sale in my district, the price for the first one mentioned is no less than DKK 950.000 ~125.000 Euros, including a cabin of 50 m2 with sleeping option. That is however more than many summer houses in the provinces, and no doubt one of the more expensive ones. Much cheaper ones exist as well; here's a tiny current list. There's a small annual fee as well.
https://www.dba.dk/boliger/fritidsbolig/kolonihaver/

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Thanks MT.   

[Que]

I was waiting for the moment  this would come up, because untill there is a vaccine continued isolation is the only rational option for risk categories:

Elderly face whole year in lockdown (Guardian)

Elderly people may have to be kept isolated until the end of the year to protect them from the coronavirus, EU chief Ursula von der Leyen has said.
"Without a vaccine, we have to limit as much as possible contact with the elderly," she told the Germany daily Bild.
"I know it's difficult and that isolation is a burden, but it is a question of life or death, we have to remain disciplined and patient. "Children and young people will enjoy more freedom of movement earlier than elderly people and those with pre-existing medical conditions," she said.

She said she hoped that a European laboratory will develop a vaccine towards the end of the year.
To ensure that people can be quickly vaccinated, authorities are already in talks with producers on gearing up for world production, she added.

Q