Coronavirus thread

[Alek Hidell]

Another one! (not that I didn't expect it). What the hell is wrong with you guys? I just expressed the first thought that crossed my mind on seeing the picture of a particular woman. Mysogyny my a$$. But looks like for some people virtue signalling has simply become a second nature, they can't help it anymore and no matter what one says. I'm sure that had I expressed my admiration for her beatiful and attractive physical features you'd have accused me of being sexist. Yeah, whatever.

I'm going to defend Florestan here (even though his use of the term "virtue signaling" almost makes me want to take it all back). Herman and SimonNZ, my politics are much closer to yours (or at least to Simon's - I have less of a feel for Herman's) than to Florestan's, but I think you're overreading his statement here. Yes, I can see how you inferred what you did, but I took his statement as a compliment to Gov. Whitmer: in the photo she looks tough, determined, no-bullshit. Of course there are some who will see it and will take it as confirmation of their preconceived notion that she's a ball-busting bitch, but I really don't think that's what Florestan was intending to suggest.

P.S. I see that greg has just posted a related comment while I've been typing this. Him I will not defend. In fact, greg, you can fuck off.

[greg]

P.S. I see that greg has just posted a related comment while I've been typing this. Him I will not defend. In fact, greg, you can fuck off.

Nice to meet you, too, stranger. 

[Herman]

I'm going to defend Florestan here (even though his use of the term "virtue signaling" almost makes me want to take it all back). Herman and SimonNZ, my politics are much closer to yours (or at least to Simon's - I have less of a feel for Herman's) than to Florestan's, but I think you're overreading his statement here. Yes, I can see how you inferred what you did, but I took his statement as a compliment to Gov. Whitmer: in the photo she looks tough, determined, no-bullshit. Of course there are some who will see it and will take it as confirmation of their preconceived notion that she's a ball-busting bitch, but I really don't think that's what Florestan was intending to suggest.

In order to make it in politics and government you need to be a ball-buster in any case. The strange thing is this is completely okay if it concerns men. I don't think, for instance, that any of Trumps fans are under the illusion he's a nice guy. They like him because he's cruel and delights in cruelty, poking fun of people with disabilities.

However, the double standard immediately kicks into gear when a woman comes in the vicinity of power. I remember that tv debate in 2016 where Trump threw a hissy fit because (just like him) Hillary had used the bathroom. That was just disgusting!

However those are just Trump's pathologies. But so many people were saying they did not like Hillary's voice (meaning she didn't talk like Marilyn Monroe); they did not like her hair, the list was just endless. Whenever a woman has political power manbabies start talking about she's angry or evil.

Gvr Whitmer is under tremendous duress currently. She's responsible for taking care of this epidemic in her state, which is pretty hard hit. And added to this the president has been mounting a hate campaign against her because she's a woman with political power, she's a Dem and (unfortunately this is a factor, too) she is not a dowdy woman. This latter thing irritates Trump too, there is a whole history of this. He hates good looking women who don't do what he wants. When Trump singles someone out for his hate, serious death threats ensue. This has happened time and time again. Trump is not just the current president, but also the head of a crime organisation (see Michael Cohen, Manafort, et al) and things work this way. So, I can't blame Whitmer for looking stressed.

[Kaga2]

My ignore list is growing faster than the epidemic. There are people who can suppress their need to make everything about how right they were (did you stockpile a few N95 masks prior to Christmas?) and those who cannot. I avoid the brain dead politics threads for just that reason. Now this is becoming a brain dead politics thread.
And feel free to ignore me too please.

[drogulus]

It's basically a religion at this point, so yep, that's how it works. Even smart people can be affected, sadly.

     Though I agree that calling something a religion is insulting, I wonder why calling a religion "a religion" isn't?

     About thatwoman-ism, Trump has a bad case and it's common on the right. In the spirit of fair play, lets talk about how ugly/handsome Gov. Cuomo is, just as a first thought kind of thing.

[drogulus]

     
     Here's something I don't understand. Why is there no federal effort to ramp up testing? I know about the failure of the original CDC test. What puzzles me is how it came about that no follow up effort has been undertaken. If ever there was a reason to use wartime production measures, this pandemic is one. If testing on a massive scale is what's needed, production of test equipment and supplies can't be needed less. Instead, efforts to reopen the country seem to involve accepting whatever level of testing states and private labs can come up with.

     

[Daverz]

Another one! (not that I didn't expect it). What the hell is wrong with you guys? I just expressed the first thought that crossed my mind

Apparently no one is allowed to express their own thoughts about your "thoughts".

[arpeggio]

I have seen several posts making the point that most of the elderly who die from the virus were going to die soon anyway.

My mother is 94 and has a heart condition.  She may live another week or a few years.  She may die tomorrow from the virus.  So what? Is her life and the lives of the elderly so worthless that one can steal a few days of life from them in order to save the profits of businesses?

So far we have gotten off lightly. 

How many people have to die before the deniers acknowledge we have a problem?

[prémont]

This is reasonable I think, if we're talking about people who don't have to work. The problem is that some of those vulnerable people may not in fact have the choice about risking their lives, because they have to pay the bills at the end of the month.

To day our parliament decided, that these vulnerable people will have the option to stay at home, which means that they will be compensated if they can't work from home.

[Kaga2]

Trump's preferred photo:



Don't understand the ragging on Whitmer (my governor).  She's doing the best she can with no guidance from from Washington.  Because there is no coherent national coronavirus response program, each state -- all 50 of them-- has had to craft its own program.  Democrat Whitmer is under attack because Trump barely won Michigan in 2016 and the Republicans are doing everything they can to undermine her, public health be damned.

Whitmer is under attack for some foolish actions. She banned the sale of car safety seats for children, and seeds. Some of her directives have been unclear. She badly screwed up with FEMA, failing to file the request for aid.

It is the states which have the power and the infrastructure to respond to the virus. They also have very divergent local conditions, and the relevant local knowledge. No one size fits all response is going to work. The federal role is to facilitate and help, and governors of both parties have praised the co operation they have received.

There is in fact some national policy too. The USA was ahead of most western countries in flight bans for instance. The new re opening guidelines are a coherent policy (but Trump is wrong imagining he has the power to dictate it, or anything much, to the states). The hold up in testing, which has been catastrophic, is the result precisely of having a uniform federal standard: the FDA and CDC would not allow states or private labs to innovate but insisted on their own, broken tests. (Contrast this with Germany, where each state is "on its own" to develop tests, and have.)

There is another advantage to a diversity of responses. We don't know what is right, and it's better to see what works and adapt than to impose one approach a priori. Federalism is an advantage.

[Kaga2]

How many people have to die before the deniers acknowledge we have a problem?

For some of them, millions. I wish I were just being sardonic. I have seen comments to that effect. One denialist took the 2mm estimate for the USA and decided that it was better than a temporary lockdown and increased distancing measures.
I frequent one site with a lot of Trumpkins. They are sharply divided, but a large bunch are solid denialists. It worries me because that kind of thinking will make lead people to not comply with the precautions. As we saw in Lansing. So, how many outbreaks will it take to convince them? Many. Many.

[Ratliff]

     
     Here's something I don't understand. Why is there no federal effort to ramp up testing? I know about the failure of the original CDC test. What puzzles me is how it came about that no follow up effort has been undertaken. If ever there was a reason to use wartime production measures, this pandemic is one. If testing on a massive scale is what's needed, production of test equipment and supplies can't be needed less. Instead, efforts to reopen the country seem to involve accepting whatever level of testing states and private labs can come up with.

   

+1

One of your posts which you neglected to obfuscate.

The defective initial test from the CDC was an astonishing blunder. The failure to form a public/private project to manufacture test materials and equipment on the largest scale possible is far worse. This was the responsibility of the White House, which is supposed to collect information from all parts of the federal bureaucracy and marshal forces for an emergency response. Relying on an uncoordinated response of private companies and states had created a patchwork system that has plateaued at an inadequate level. According to reports I've seen we need three times the current level of testing to safely relax social distancing.

[Kaga2]

Jacksonville, Florida, opened beaches yesterday:

Yes, for walking but with rules. No chairs, no towels, no sunbathing, no groups (over 5 I think). It's not quite a case of "Florida man" again.
That said, I would avoid the place. It's clear a lot disagree with me ...

[North Star]

Whitmer is under attack for some foolish actions. She banned the sale of car safety seats for children, and seeds.

Or maybe she did not.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/492579-michigan-governor-responds-to-meghan-mccain-buying-child-car-seats-not
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/15/facebook-posts/covid-order-doesnt-ban-gardening-or-sale-seeds-and/

[drogulus]

The hold up in testing, which has been catastrophic, is the result precisely of having a uniform federal standard: the FDA and CDC would not allow states or private labs to innovate but insisted on their own, broken tests. (Contrast this with Germany, where each state is "on its own" to develop tests, and have.)

Federalism is an advantage.

    Federalism is neither an advantage or disadvantage in a national crisis. Competence can take whatever form.

    German testing is under the supervision of the Robert Koch Institute, as national as can be.

    I mentioned before the CDC test blunder, and you can add to that weak national pandemic planning going back decades. It's not lousy to have a federal plan because we have not implemented sound federal planning. And the lousy plans going back several administrations are not a sign of the virtues of federalism.

    I am not tempted to conclude that because Trump is President nothing Presidents do is worth doing. The federal role should not shrink because Trump shrunk it.

   

[drogulus]

One of your posts which you neglected to obfuscate.

     I was in a hurry. Next time I'll apply the full treatment.

[Alek Hidell]

In order to make it in politics and government you need to be a ball-buster in any case. The strange thing is this is completely okay if it concerns men. I don't think, for instance, that any of Trumps fans are under the illusion he's a nice guy. They like him because he's cruel and delights in cruelty, poking fun of people with disabilities.

However, the double standard immediately kicks into gear when a woman comes in the vicinity of power. I remember that tv debate in 2016 where Trump threw a hissy fit because (just like him) Hillary had used the bathroom. That was just disgusting!

However those are just Trump's pathologies. But so many people were saying they did not like Hillary's voice (meaning she didn't talk like Marilyn Monroe); they did not like her hair, the list was just endless. Whenever a woman has political power manbabies start talking about she's angry or evil.

Gvr Whitmer is under tremendous duress currently. She's responsible for taking care of this epidemic in her state, which is pretty hard hit. And added to this the president has been mounting a hate campaign against her because she's a woman with political power, she's a Dem and (unfortunately this is a factor, too) she is not a dowdy woman. This latter thing irritates Trump too, there is a whole history of this. He hates good looking women who don't do what he wants. When Trump singles someone out for his hate, serious death threats ensue. This has happened time and time again. Trump is not just the current president, but also the head of a crime organisation (see Michael Cohen, Manafort, et al) and things work this way. So, I can't blame Whitmer for looking stressed.

Oh, yes, I'm well aware of the double standard. I agree with everything you said here. I find it fascinating (and distressing, too, of course) that Trump's fans like him not in spite of the fact that he's an asshole, but because of it.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Jacksonville, Florida, opened beaches yesterday:

I looked at an article here:  https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/17/gov-ron-desantis-gives-some-florida-beaches-green-light-to-reopen.html  Hard to tell by the photo; it looks like some people are being good at distancing...not so certain about others in the background?  It's also not possible to know how big the 'cell' sizes are either.  Not keen on the idea that I'm not seeing any people wearing masks there though....not even the police officer.     I noticed that they also are limiting the hours too. 6-11 a.m. and 5-8 p.m.  Will be interesting to see how this experiment goes.  I wish the best to them.  As for myself, I'm going for walks...mostly heading to trails which are pretty quiet...busier, of course, on nice sunny days.  Most people are pretty good, but (and I hate to say it) a good chunk of the 'young ones' seem to be lost in their own world and clueless to a large extent about minding their distances.

[SimonNZ]

My ignore list is growing faster than the epidemic. There are people who can suppress their need to make everything about how right they were (did you stockpile a few N95 masks prior to Christmas?) and those who cannot. I avoid the brain dead politics threads for just that reason. Now this is becoming a brain dead politics thread.
And feel free to ignore me too please.

No, no...it's "brain-washed."

Should I sabre-rattle about my ignore list now that you've said something rude?


meanwhile:

Coronavirus hits staff close to Nigerian and Afghan presidents
Muhammadu Buhari's chief of staff dies and 20 people close to Ashraf Ghani test positive

Ecuador's death rate soars as fears grow over scale of coronavirus crisis
Mortalities in one province leap from 3,000 to 11,000 in six weeks, with health and mortuary services overwhelmed

[geralmar]

There is absolutely no way to overstate the degree to which Trump and the Republicans have politicized the pandemic:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa/u-s-coronavirus-crisis-takes-a-sharp-political-turn-idUSKBN21Z2HN