Coronavirus thread

[Herman]

Whitmer is under attack for some foolish actions. She banned the sale of car safety seats for children, and seeds. Some of her directives have been unclear. She badly screwed up with FEMA, failing to file the request for aid.

These are myths.

[Herman]

The idea that we're shutting down society / economy just to grant octogenarians just a little longer life is a distortion, too. Yes, very old people are very vulnerable. But the ICUs are full with men in their 40s and 50s. Quite often they have weight problems, but not even that. Healthy middleaged men can have a killer auto-immune reaction. The way this epidemic has been used to wedge old people apart as expendable is rather disenchanting.

[Mandryka]

We've never made a successful vaccine for a coronavirus before. This is why it's so difficult

https://www.abc.net.au/news/health/2020-04-17/coronavirus-vaccine-ian-frazer/12146616

[Que]

The USA was ahead of most western countries in flight bans for instance.

For instance? That is actually the only thing I can think of....
Probably because travel bans come natural to Trump.

Not that I would compare any Western country' favourably to any other!
The only countries that were prepared and resonded timely are Asian.
Not because they are smarter or better, but because the previous SARS outbreak taught them a hard and valuable lesson.
It seems countries are like just people: sometimes (often) just knowing of a danger, is not the same as experiencing it. But it is not rational, it is pretty stupid.....yet very human...

But there are of course various levels of stupidity.
Bolsonaro of Brazil denies the dangers of the virus. As does Belarusian Lukashenko, who described the global panic as a "psychosis".

Q

[Florestan]

I'm going to defend Florestan here (even though his use of the term "virtue signaling" almost makes me want to take it all back). Herman and SimonNZ, my politics are much closer to yours (or at least to Simon's - I have less of a feel for Herman's) than to Florestan's,

Thanks, I appreciate your honesty and courage.

Here's my politics. Politically I'm a liberal, economically a centrist, socially and culturally a conservative, musically a classico-romantic, religiously an Orthodox Christian (though not a very church-going one and certainly not a perfect one). In all instances I uphold the rule of law and value morality and common sense over ideological committment. I abhor fanaticism, be it right or left, and I'm  utterly opposed to any form of censorship, be it right or left.

You decide how far or how close you are to me. 

[Mandryka]

Nearly seven million jobs at risk if lockdown lasts for months

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/19/nearly-seven-million-jobs-at-risk-if-lockdown-lasts-for-months

[MusicTurner]

Heard a good radio program with some leading hospital people here, including working scientists/doctors, they suggested that:

1) treatment: prospects for finding good treatments seem good, 5 different types are being tested in Denmark, and procedure-establishing results are likely to be had within 2-3 months. Promising types include Remdesivir.

2) finding the specific factors for those people who are particularly at risk, is an important task; currently these patterns are difficult to establish, but fully reliable results should probably come within 3-4 months.

3) a reliable vaccine is likely to be the last thing coming, maybe in 18 months, due to the difficulties and testing involved. The talks about a vaccine maybe ready in September (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52329659) could also perhaps be influenced by a wish for more funding. Danish authorities (that follow 12 of the better projects globally) are not expecting any vaccines this year.

[Kaga2]

"Probably because travel bans come natural to Trump."

And there it is.

Goodbye all, this discussion is too much driven by prior politics and resentment. I think most of you unserious, petty people.

[Karl Henning]

A closely watched study suggests that Mass. is nearing the peak as we report 156 new coronavirus deaths, nearly 2,000 new cases.

[Karl Henning]

A closely watched study suggests that Mass. is nearing the peak as we report 156 new coronavirus deaths, nearly 2,000 new cases.

State health officials reported 156 new deaths from COVID-19, bringing the total deaths attributed to the disease to 1,560, and confirmed nearly 2,000 new cases, increasing that count to more than 36,000 in Massachusetts alone.

The increases were near, but slightly below, numbers seen in recent days. And they come as researchers running a widely cited coronavirus model at the University of Washington said the caseloads here may be peaking, and sharply lowered their estimates for deaths in Massachusetts.

The newest numbers from the state are the latest sign that the long-anticipated "surge" in coronavirus cases has arrived. So far, Governor Charlie Baker said Saturday, the state's hospitals appear to be holding up.

"Generally speaking," Baker said, "People feel pretty good about where we are with respect to [hospital capacity]. That's been an important part of how we manage our way through this."

There's still a lot to manage through. Massachusetts has reported more confirmed cases than much larger states such as Texas and California, according to the COVID Tracking Project. Businesses and schools across the state remain shut down and stay-at-home advisories have turned neighborhoods eerily quiet. White House coronavirus response coordinator Dr. Deborah Birx on Saturday mentioned Boston as one of a handful of hot spots her office is watching closely.

But there are some signs that all that social distancing is slowing the spread of the highly contagious disease.

After adding in data that tracks people's movement around cities, models run by the University of Washington's Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation now predict both deaths and impact on hospitals in Massachusetts will peak by Monday, instead of the end of this month. Their total projection for deaths here are now just over 3,200.

Those models, which have emerged as a popular measuring stick for when life may return to normal, have themselves become controversial, swinging dramatically as researchers have incorporated new data. Earlier this week, when they projected some 8,000 deaths in Massachusetts, officials here pushed back, saying the model's assumptions don't match the reality of life on the ground here. Some epidemiologists have faulted them on scientific grounds, saying their methodology is far too back-of-the-envelope to guide weighty decisions about when to "re-open" the economy.

Regardless, Baker said Saturday, the state is doing everything it can to contain the virus, and manage it in the long months ahead until treatments and vaccines are developed.

Massachusetts has quickly ramped up testing, becoming a "top-five player in terms of testing per capita," he said. More than 8,000 people received coronavirus tests Saturday, according to the Department of Public Health, for a total of nearly 157,000 tests so far. The state has distributed about 4 million pieces of personal protective equipment to hospitals and other health care facilities since the outbreak began, Baker said. And it's ramping up the nation's most ambitious "contact tracing" program to find people who've come in contact with someone confirmed to have COVID-19 and prevent further spread.

"The most important thing we're going to need to be able to do is identify people who've been infected, get in touch, and help them isolate," he said. "That, from our point of view, is just a crucial element in our ability to provide people with confidence that we're doing all we can."

Still, the virus is taking an astounding toll, particularly in the state's nursing homes and other long-term care facilities.

Saturday's figures showed, for the first time, that more than half of the people who've died from coronavirus in Massachusetts were residents of long-term care facilities, and 250 such facilities have confirmed cases. The hard-hit Holyoke Soldiers' Home had another resident die Saturday, bringing the total confirmed deaths from COVID-19 there to 48. The Chelsea Soldiers' Home also reported another resident coronavirus death Saturday.

The Massachusetts National Guard has been visiting nursing homes to test residents and staff, and Baker said state officials are trying to help these facilities rethink their operations to help reduce the spread of disease, no simple feat in places that are set up to encourage socialization and where staff often float from room to room.

"They are basically set up for people to engage with each other," he said. "The whole point is not to isolate people."

In Brockton, Mayor Robert Sullivan said Saturday a significant portion of the city's 48 COVID-19 deaths were patients at long-term care facilities.

"We know that the virus really attacks the seniors," Sullivan said. "They're the most vulnerable."

Out on the streets of Boston, the focus remains containing the spread of the disease. The Walsh Administration on Sunday plans to send out sound trucks to hard-hit neighborhoods such as Mattapan, Dorchester, and East Boston, broadcasting messages in seven languages to stay home, and stay healthy.

[drogulus]

A closely watched study suggests that Mass. is nearing the peak as we report 156 new coronavirus deaths, nearly 2,000 new cases.

     NPR is now saying it will be April 29, and the latest revision anticipates 241 deaths at the peak, up from 203 a few days ago.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I saw images of ambulances backed up waiting to get into hospitals in Russia on the news today:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8211727/Dozens-ambulances-filled-suspected-coronavirus-patients-wait-hours-outside-Moscow-hospitals.html

[drogulus]

     Americans at World Health Organization transmitted real-time information about coronavirus to Trump administration

The presence of so many U.S. officials undercuts President Trump's charge that the WHO's failure to communicate the extent of the threat, born of a desire to protect China, is largely responsible for the rapid spread of the virus in the United States.

The administration has also sharply criticized the Chinese government for withholding information.

But the president, who often touts a personal relationship with Chinese President Xi Jinping and is reluctant to inflict damage on a trade deal with Beijing, appears to see the WHO as a more defenseless target.

     Trump has gone from "China virus" to "WHO virus". Truly, anyone will do, as long as he isn't blamed for what he didn't do.

     Other leaders think US disengagement with the WHO increases Chinese leverage over the organization. It makes sense to me. Isn't that dangerous? Wouldn't we have been better off to have more American experts in China?

     U.S. axed CDC expert job in China months before virus outbreak

WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Several months before the coronavirus pandemic began, the Trump administration eliminated a key American public health position in Beijing intended to help detect disease outbreaks in China, Reuters has learned.

The American disease expert, a medical epidemiologist embedded in China's disease control agency, left her post in July, according to four sources with knowledge of the issue. The first cases of the new coronavirus may have emerged as early as November, and as cases exploded, the Trump administration in February chastised China for censoring information about the outbreak and keeping U.S. experts from entering the country to help.

"It was heartbreaking to watch," said Bao-Ping Zhu, a Chinese American who served in that role, which was funded by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, between 2007 and 2011. "If someone had been there, public health officials and governments across the world could have moved much faster."

Zhu and the other sources said the American expert, Dr. Linda Quick, was a trainer of Chinese field epidemiologists who were deployed to the epicenter of outbreaks to help track, investigate and contain diseases.

As an American CDC employee, they said, Quick was in an ideal position to be the eyes and ears on the ground for the United States and other countries on the coronavirus outbreak, and might have alerted them to the growing threat weeks earlier.

    The delay in the warning doesn't excuse weeks of bumbling after.

Quick left amid a bitter U.S. trade dispute with China when she learned her federally funded post, officially known as resident adviser to the U.S. Field Epidemiology Training Program in China, would be discontinued as of September, the sources said. The U.S. CDC said it first learned of a "cluster of 27 cases of pneumonia" of unexplained origin in Wuhan, China, on Dec. 31.

     There's no excuse.

[North Star]

My ignore list is growing faster than the epidemic. There are people who can suppress their need to make everything about how right they were (did you stockpile a few N95 masks prior to Christmas?) and those who cannot. I avoid the brain dead politics threads for just that reason. Now this is becoming a brain dead politics thread.
And feel free to ignore me too please.

Whitmer is under attack for some foolish actions. She banned the sale of car safety seats for children, and seeds.

Or maybe she did not.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/492579-michigan-governor-responds-to-meghan-mccain-buying-child-car-seats-not
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/apr/15/facebook-posts/covid-order-doesnt-ban-gardening-or-sale-seeds-and/

"Probably because travel bans come natural to Trump."

And there it is.

Goodbye all, this discussion is too much driven by prior politics and resentment. I think most of you unserious, petty people.

Ta-ta, you personification of seriousness and objectivity, we will try to keep learning even if you are not with us!

[Florestan]

Ta-ta, you personification of seriousness and objectivity, we will try to keep learning even if you are not with us!

What the fuck do you mean?

[Herman]

Ohhh.. you said f - word!

A lot of people are understandably on edge, and that seems to be the case with Kaga2

[Florestan]

Ohhh.. you said f - word!

Fuck! 

[drogulus]

     https://www.youtube.com/v/22SQVZ4CeXA&feature=emb_logo

     No, Angela, it's Chynahh! It's the WHO and tyrannical governors! Where's the blame?

[North Star]

What the fuck do you mean?

Hristos a inviat!

Just that it's a bit silly to call most of the posters in a topic petty, unserious people , while spreading fake news and failing to acknowledge that when it's pointed out.

[geralmar]

Detroit mayor rejects National Guard food distribution assistance because of 1967 riots:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2020/04/17/coronavirus-duggan-rejects-national-guard-offer/5154290002/

Even in the midst of pandemic political turf must be protected.  Especially disappointing because mayor is usually quite decent.