Topic: George Lloyd

[Brian]

Is there anything resembling a consensus on Lloyd's most successful symphony, i.e. a place to start?

Sounds like everyone else is pointing at 4 and 7. If I may offer a different point of view - I don't think I've ever heard 7, so at a bit of a disadvantage here. My intro to Lloyd was the Lyrita 3CD set of 4, 5, and 8, and I immediately hit it off with 5. It's something I listen to about twice a year for over a decade now. It's quite hard to describe because any description of it sounds stupid (part pastoral romp, part tragedy, with the full orchestra only playing together in the second half), but the parts all work together cumulatively so very well. 4 is also good.

But I would start someone off with 6. The reason is simple: it's the short one  It's only like 20 minutes, and you get the full Lloyd experience, including a romantic time warp slow movement. If you like 6, then proceed on to 4 and 5, which are an hour each, and consider some of the other stuff, which is also ... well, usually also an hour each.

This answer may depend on how you plan to sample. On CD, No. 6 comes with a fun little overture and another symphony, 10, which is for wind band and not a top recommendation of anyone's. So No. 6 may be a superior starting point if you are streaming or trying it out on YouTube, but if you want to start with paying for a physical CD, maybe you should after all go with 4 and/or 5. As for me, guess it's time I tried No. 7...

[Maestro267]

No. 5, despite its length, is definitely on the lighter side compared with Nos. 4 & 7.

Meanwhile, I've just (as I type) come to the end of another playthrough of A Symphonic Mass. Again, an awesome work. I keep raving about the awe-inspiring conclusion of the Sanctus/Benedictus, but it's just that jaw-dropping!

[vandermolen]

No.4 would be my choice.

[vandermolen]

The 'Scapegoat' Piano Concerto would, I think, be a good introduction to Lloyd's music. Much as I like PC 3 with its echoes of Rachmaninov and Khachaturian I think that No.1 is the more original work. It is dramatic and turbulent but approachable and with moments of intense poetry like the eloquent conclusion. It is quite short at 25 minutes. I wish that John Ogdon had recorded it as he performed at the premiere:

[SymphonicAddict]

The 'Scapegoat' Piano Concerto would, I think, be a good introduction to Lloyd's music. Much as I like PC 3 with its echoes of Rachmaninov and Khachaturian I think that No.1 is the more original work. It is dramatic and turbulent but approachable and with moments of intense poetry like the eloquent conclusion. It is quite short at 25 minutes. I wish that John Ogdon had recorded it as he performed at the premiere:

As far as I remember, that concerto was the one I liked the most. The length appeared an advantage. The PC 4 is the only one I don't have. Do you know it, Jeffrey?

[relm1]

Is there anything resembling a consensus on Lloyd's most successful symphony, i.e. a place to start?

I think No. 11 is a great place to start.  It's where I got my start.  It is not my favorite of his symphonies...that would be No. 7 which is probably his most pessimistic...whereas 11 is transformative like many of the greatest symphonies (Beethoven 5, 9, Shosti 5, 7, Mahler 2, etc).  So it has a very wide range of emotions from strife, darkness, tenderness, mystery, satire, definitive joy.  In this you get everything of George Lloyd.  No. 4 for me has a bit too much jollity for its subject matter.  No. 5 and 8 have many of the same qualities but perhaps not as eloquently stated.  No. 7 is terse and dark.  No. 3 is wonderful also but I am new to that one compared to 11.   So to me, the No. 11 is sort of his Rach 2 or Proko 5...the best place to introduce someone to.

[springrite]

I just purchased symphonies #4,5,6,7,8. Should receive it in a week!

[vandermolen]

As far as I remember, that concerto was the one I liked the most. The length appeared an advantage. The PC 4 is the only one I don't have. Do you know it, Jeffrey?

Yes Cesar, - although I haven't listened to it for years but I remember that 'Scapegoat' and No.3 were my favourites. No.4 did not make much of an impression on me but maybe I should listen to it again.

[vandermolen]

I just purchased symphonies #4,5,6,7,8. Should receive it in a week!

Excellent Paul. I don't know No.6 so well, although it is included on the new Lyrita release - the others plus 11 and 12 are my favourites.

[vandermolen]

I think No. 11 is a great place to start.  It's where I got my start.  It is not my favorite of his symphonies...that would be No. 7 which is probably his most pessimistic...whereas 11 is transformative like many of the greatest symphonies (Beethoven 5, 9, Shosti 5, 7, Mahler 2, etc).  So it has a very wide range of emotions from strife, darkness, tenderness, mystery, satire, definitive joy.  In this you get everything of George Lloyd.  No. 4 for me has a bit too much jollity for its subject matter.  No. 5 and 8 have many of the same qualities but perhaps not as eloquently stated.  No. 7 is terse and dark.  No. 3 is wonderful also but I am new to that one compared to 11.   So to me, the No. 11 is sort of his Rach 2 or Proko 5...the best place to introduce someone to.

I agree about No.11. Oddly enough I've found No.4 quite dark in places. I need to hear 3 again as I feel that I hardly know it.

[springrite]

I agree about No.11. Oddly enough I've found No.4 quite dark in places. I need to hear 3 again as I feel that I hardly know it.

For what it's worth, I started with #11 as well. It's the only piece I have heard so far.

[vandermolen]

As far as I remember, that concerto was the one I liked the most. The length appeared an advantage. The PC 4 is the only one I don't have. Do you know it, Jeffrey?

Change of View!

Following the discussion here I decided the buy the George Lloyd sampler (below) dirt cheap on Amazon UK. Coincidentally it features the long (15 minutes) opening movement of Piano Concerto 4. I thought it was great. It features a soulful and highly memorable tune a few minutes in which keeps returning. As soon as the movement ended I had to play it again. So, on second thoughts Cesar, I'd recommend PC 4 at least for its engaging opening movement.


PS the sampler itself is rather good - featuring half a photo of Margaret Rutherford on the cover.
 
There's a good review of the PC4 here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/George-Lloyd-Lily-leaf-Grasshopper-Transformation/dp/B019GRBP1K

[cilgwyn]

I'm listening to the Fourth Symphony,now! I'm going to have to hear the 'Scapegoat',aren't I? And,No3! But I will resist for the time being! (I've got a sack full of empty cd packaging to cart out tonight!! What must the postman think?!! ) I'll put on his Piano concerto No 3*,later! I've got it on a very plain looking Conifer cassette! I've got to turn it over to hear the final movement! Just like in the good ol' days!!

*by George Lloyd,not the postman!!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

But I would start someone off with 6. The reason is simple: it's the short one  It's only like 20 minutes, and you get the full Lloyd experience, including a romantic time warp slow movement. If you like 6, then proceed on to 4 and 5, which are an hour each, and consider some of the other stuff, which is also ... well, usually also an hour each.

The Sixth is masterly. I can find no weakness in it. It really is a thing of beauty. So, yes, as your introduction to Lloyd it certainly will work.


Another thing: 11 was a symphony I still had to listen to. After doing so, I feel I haven't yet grasped it. It seems more abstract than symphonies 3-9, focussing more on atmosphere through sonorities and orchestral colour.


I shall have to listen to it many more times (no chore).

[Brian]

Agree with you, Johan - the 11th is one of the harder ones. I don't get it yet.

I hope Scarpia hasn't gotten perplexed/frustrated by everyone recommending every single symphony!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Haha!


I think it's clear that most Lloydians here regard Symphony No. 7 as an absolute masterpiece, Brian...

[Ghost of Baron Scarpia]

Agree with you, Johan - the 11th is one of the harder ones. I don't get it yet.

I hope Scarpia hasn't gotten perplexed/frustrated by everyone recommending every single symphony!

Scarpia's interest has evaporated, due to perplexion, budgetary constraints, and time constraints.

Brian, I remember once you put a movement of Lloyd into a "guess this composer" thread long ago. Do you remember which one it was? I vaguely remember thinking it sounded like Rimsky-Kosakov.

[relm1]

Another thing: 11 was a symphony I still had to listen to. After doing so, I feel I haven't yet grasped it. It seems more abstract than symphonies 3-9, focussing more on atmosphere through sonorities and orchestral colour.

Fascinating.  I found it to be a no brainier.  In fact maybe too on the nose. 

[relm1]

Haha!
I think it's clear that most Lloydians here regard Symphony No. 7 as an absolute masterpiece, Brian...

I would agree with this assessment.  Have you heard this recording?  https://www.chandos.net/products/catalogue/LE%201135  Absolutely fantastic and intense. 

[SymphonicAddict]

Change of View!

Following the discussion here I decided the buy the George Lloyd sampler (below) dirt cheap on Amazon UK. Coincidentally it features the long (15 minutes) opening movement of Piano Concerto 4. I thought it was great. It features a soulful and highly memorable tune a few minutes in which keeps returning. As soon as the movement ended I had to play it again. So, on second thoughts Cesar, I'd recommend PC 4 at least for its engaging opening movement.


PS the sampler itself is rather good - featuring half a photo of Margaret Rutherford on the cover.
 
There's a good review of the PC4 here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/George-Lloyd-Lily-leaf-Grasshopper-Transformation/dp/B019GRBP1K

Good stuff, Jeffrey. Thanks! Now I'm curious about that concerto!