USA Politics

[arpeggio]

Dowder,

Have you ever been a member of a Union?

[JBS]

Oh yeah, those unions are all about brutalizing and killing people. I'm sure that's written into the various contracts.  No absurd generalizations on your part. 

I'm just pointing out the meaning of your words.

You claim the reforms if adopted would endanger LEOs.

The reforms are limited to stopping some forms of police brutality and stopping unnecessary use of lethal force.

Therefore you are claiming police must use brutality and unnecessary lethal force to protect themselves.

[JBS]

That's your spin on the issue, either you're  for "reform" or brutality and murder.

It's not my spin. You can reform the police or you can let them go on brutalizing and killing.  There's no third choice between them. Since you are against reform, you must be in favor of brutalizing and killing.

BTW, there are a lot of cases. They aren't isolated. They aren't blown out of proportion. If anything, they are underreported.

[JBS]

You appear hostile to the police in general spouting stuff like that. I know your excuse is the union but I think you have a deeper loathing for LE.

Of course, if the numbers don't support your claim well....conspiracy theories!

I have a loathing for brutality and unnecessary killing.  That's why I am for reforming the police.

[JBS]

I guess the police have to die and society made inherently less safe to satisfy your anti-LE attitudes.

I know, I know: you'll say cops and criminals will hold hands and sing kumbaya as soon as the brutality stops and the social workers start doing things the cops currently do.   

That's the thing. The reforms won't make police less safe and won't make society less safe. In fact, they will make everyone safer.

[arpeggio]

Tell me why that matters?

Because I was a shop steward for over twenty years with the National Treasury Employees Union and the National Association of Government Employees and for three years I was a chapter president.

I was also a pension auditor and in during my career I audited several hundred pension plans.

My experiences with Unions appears to clash with your perceptions.

I just did not want to assume whether or not you had any experiences with unions.

[Christabel]

That's the thing. The reforms won't make police less safe and won't make society less safe. In fact, they will make everyone safer.

You just couldn't make up this stuff!!  Absolutely priceless.

[Christabel]

How Hegemony Ends

The Unraveling of American Power



One can only hope this time really is different.

No country or people can hope to prosper when they are so filled with self-loathing and hatred.  Fact.  (Oh, that's right;  Dr. Thomas Sowell says 'the Left doesn't like facts because they find them emotionally unsatisfying".

Clue;  when you have better people you get better leaders.  (Not including totalitarian states.)

[arpeggio]

What are my perceptions? You seem to assume a lot.

That is why I was asking.

[Herman]

If that's how you view police work not much can be said. The hatred for LE is baffling for a law abiding citizen such as myself.

Mysteriously, the word "white" got lost in that latter sentence. (Somehow I'm not surprised.)

As the Cornel West incident showed, you can be affluent, gracious and law-abiding till the cows come home, but if you happen to be black the cops are going to stop you.

You would not know that, because it's not in your interest to know.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

First I said WE ALL are crazy, including myself.  I apologize for making you think that you are the crazy one.

Second, you started lecturing me as if I had no idea how the electoral college works or whether or not I am for it.  For the record, I am for it.

I didn't mean to lecture you, although I see how it would come across that way.

It's just a topic that gets my gall because I think it distracts unnecessarily from the real problems, both with the candidates, the state of the electorate, and the more troubling aspects of the electoral system. Apologies.

[Todd]

In one of the least surprising pieces of political news of the year, black Americans say racism, policing top issues for November, favor Biden by huge margin, Post-Ipsos poll finds

Biden leads 92% to 5%, trumping HRC and Kerry percentage-wise, but trailing Barry.  Dems just have to make sure to mobilize voters.

And with Senate Democrats killing the Republican police reform bill, and Republicans set to kill the Democrat police reform bill, race gets to be a high profile wedge issue all the way through November. 

[Karl Henning]

Of course, if the numbers don't support your claim well....conspiracy theories!

That's downright funny, coming from a Trumpkin!

[knight66]

Just thought I would ask everyone to depersonalise the discussion. The you  are this and you are that is the entrance to the oft seen slippery slope. Would yoU please try to stick to the issues and sidestep the personalities of those contributing.

Thanks,

Knight

[Karl Henning]

That's the thing. The reforms won't make police less safe and won't make society less safe. In fact, they will make everyone safer.

Especially given a President who orders police to pepper spray protesters. Not looters, protesters.
Had an hourlong talk yesterday with an old friend, a retired policeman in Florida.  One parenthetical piece of information which struck me is, there is no unanimity in whether certain tools are considered "lethal weapons" among police in different localities  it is not the case everywhere that police would fire pepper spray at ordinary citizens.  In his career, my friend has seen fatalities from, e,g. rubber bullets and pepper spray.  This certainly gauges some people who are okay with Bunker Boy releasing the Cossacks at LaFayette Square.

[greg]

Conservatives are almost as idealistically delusional as liberals.

Check out this video from PragerU. 28k downvotes and 10k upvotes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtvfHnZMcOY

It's trying to sell young men the idea of marriage. It fails miserably. Dude, this isn't the 1950s any more.

Pure idealism, unchecked by reality. Just about as delusional as "but we can make communism work this time!" 

[drogulus]

If you say so.

     What says different? Do you have a source for the claim that police brutality keeps people safe? Certainly the brutalized aren't safer. What about the police? Are they safer when they use brutality?

     The default assumption before new evidence is considered should be that elevating the level of mutual hostility is unsafe, reducing it is safer.

     My community doesn't have much brutality in it. There are people of many races here, though white people are the majority. I have the distinct impression, and it may not be entirely accurate, that my town doesn't want to have brutality inflicted on any portion of the people here, no matter what color they are. There are black joggers on my street. I hope I'm right that none of them have been choked for it.

[Karl Henning]

The Conspiracy Theory side of the street:

https://www.youtube.com/v/cc4qgvXgLkc

The vitriol and the idiocy

[Karl Henning]

.

[milk]

The Conspiracy Theory side of the street:

https://www.youtube.com/v/cc4qgvXgLkc

The vitriol and the idiocy

My sister is hard into this conspiracy theory. She posts on FB every day about it. She's an antivaxxer too.