Author Topic: USA Politics (redux)  (Read 10398 times)

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Offline Herman

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2020, 01:10:29 AM »
Bruce: how do you personally rate Trump's chances of ratfucking his way into a second term?

Primarily this is about the next elections, the midterms and 2024.

The "stolen 2020 elections" was intended as the successor to the Barack HUSSEIN Obama, Birther meme. Just a little thing to delegitimize the four years Biden - Harris will have.

However, I get the feeling McConnell are watching if this stuff is getting some traction, just as the previously unthinkinkable Trump 2024 notion, and so they are just going to see where this is getting them.

Offline Herman

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2020, 01:14:42 AM »
It's rather painful to see Biden going through the "bipartisan" moves, even while McConnell c.s. are sawing off his legs at the knees, by calling the elections illegit.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2020, 01:40:33 AM »
Joe pulled it off.  No surprise.  The surprising thing is just how poorly Dems did overall.  They were boosted by a pandemic and a depression, and yet they lost seats in the House, and Republicans look set to hold a Senate majority.  So much for packing the court, impeaching Trump's SCOTUS picks, a green new deal, etc.  From a long term perspective, Trump's gains with minorities point a way forward from Republicans later in the decade and in the 2030s.  Dems have to come up with a better game plan.

Yes, the Dems did poorly althou progressives did well. Every Dem advocating Medicare for all got re-elected. Overall Dems need better game plan and it's very simple: Serve your base like the Republicans do. 80-90 % of the Democrat's base want Medicare for all, so advocating medicare for all should be a no-brainer, except the insurance companies and Big Pharma have bought corporate Dems so their hands are tied...  :-\  Left wing policies (drug / minimum wage policies)  won in referendums in this election even in states where Biden lost to Trump.

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Offline 71 dB

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2020, 01:53:50 AM »
I honestly don’t see Trump conceding and he’ll probably end up being evicted from the White House. He’ll never admit defeat even though by large he simply doesn’t have the electoral college votes. He can contest Michigan, Arizona, Nevada, Georgia, Pennsylvania all he wants, there hasn’t been any hard evidence that voter fraud has occurred and even if this ends up at the Supreme Court, they’ll throw it out, because it’s not just one or two states he’s contesting, but many of them. Many believe this to be another 2000 election, but it’s not. It’s quite evident that Trump lost. Some news commentator mentioned that the mail-in ballot is a Republican’s worst enemy, I would say no, a Republican’s worst enemy is supporting this cretin we currently have in office. I can guarantee you that if the shoe was on the foot and Biden lost, this wouldn’t be happening, because we have to remember that Biden isn’t a stable genius like Trump.

At best Trump can have like 95 Biden votes nullified in a state where Biden won by thousands of votes. Even re-counts can chance the votes more and it doesn't change the outcome of this election. This election fraud circus is to give Trump a "heroic" way out in the eyes of his supporters.

Biden suffers from mental decline due to age, but despite of this he is fresh wind of sanity after four years of Trump.
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Offline Herman

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2020, 02:00:43 AM »
Yes, the Dems did poorly althou progressives did well. Every Dem advocating Medicare for all got re-elected. Overall Dems need better game plan and it's very simple: Serve your base like the Republicans do.

In reality the Republicans do not do this at all.

They serve the one percent, and deliver (under Trump) carnival hi-jinks for the base.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2020, 02:12:46 AM »
In reality the Republicans do not do this at all.

They serve the one percent, and deliver (under Trump) carnival hi-jinks for the base.

Both The Republicans and the Dems serve the one percent, but at least the Republicans know how to make their ignorant base believe they are being served. The Democratic base is smarter, better educated and can see they are poorly served. It seems like the corporate Dems are not that interested of political power. They are good as long as donor money keeps coming...
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Online Jo498

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2020, 02:21:56 AM »
I am a bit surprised that the press/public mostly sees it as a done deal despite the legal fights to come. Is the main difference to 2000 Bush vs. Gore that too many states would have to be revised/recounted or that the supposed indications of irregularities are generally too weak to get recounts or the like even going?
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
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Offline Herman

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2020, 02:37:38 AM »
I am a bit surprised that the press/public mostly sees it as a done deal despite the legal fights to come. Is the main difference to 2000 Bush vs. Gore that too many states would have to be revised/recounted or that the supposed indications of irregularities are generally too weak to get recounts or the like even going?

That, and the margins are much bigger. In Florida 2000 I believe Bush won by 500 votes.

In 2020 Biden's margins in PA, Nevada and Georgia are in the 10.000s.

You have to understand the GOP / Trump mindset, in which Democratic voters aren't really legit Americans, because they don't bow to Trump. That makes their votes potentially illegal.

Remember Trump refused to give California disaster relief in the fire season, because CA is solidly D in elections. So they're not Americans.

It's circular reasoning, obviously, but its the best these people can do.

Offline BWV 1080

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2020, 03:56:04 AM »
What are the odds?


One in five COVID-19 patients develop mental illness within 90 days - study
By Kate Kelland
3 MIN READ

LONDON (Reuters) - Many COVID-19 survivors are likely to be at greater risk of developing mental illness, psychiatrists said on Monday, after a large study found 20% of those infected with the coronavirus are diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder within 90 days.

Anxiety, depression and insomnia were most common among recovered COVID-19 patients in the study who developed mental health problems. The researchers from Britain’s Oxford University also found significantly higher risks of dementia, a brain impairment condition.

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-mental-illness-int-idUSKBN27P35N


Offline Florestan

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2020, 04:12:45 AM »
Trump refused to give California disaster relief in the fire season

Fact check: the statement above is partially true but it's not the whole story.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/us/trump-california-wildfire-relief.html

Quote from: The New York Times

Trump Reverses Decision to Reject California’s Request for Wildfire Relief

MORAGA, Calif. — President Trump reversed himself on Friday, approving a package of wildfire disaster relief for California hours after officials from his administration had explained why the state should not receive the aid.

The abrupt turnaround came after the president spoke with Gov. Gavin Newsom, a Democrat, and Representative Kevin McCarthy, a Republican and the House minority leader, with the White House saying the men “presented a convincing case” for the state receiving the aid.

The disaster relief aid covers six major wildfires that scorched more than 1.8 million acres, destroyed thousands of structures and caused at least three deaths last month.

Just got off the phone with President Trump who has approved our Major Disaster Declaration request,” Mr. Newsom of California said in a statement. “Grateful for his quick response.

The relief package adds to the 68 fire-related aid packages for California that Mr. Trump has approved during his tenure: 61 for firefighting, five for disaster relief and two for support of emergency services.

California has suffered a series of huge fires since August, when freak lightning storms ignited hundreds of blazes, some of which grew to be the largest in modern state history. Subsequent fires in September tore through parts of the Sierra Nevada and wine country north of San Francisco.

The initial rejection was unusual but not unprecedented: A 2017 report by the Congressional Research Service found that from 1974 to 2016 presidents denied requests for disaster relief an average of 2.9 times per year during nonelection years, and 2.1 times in a year with a presidential election.

Since the enactment in 1953 of a federal disaster relief act, presidents have been authorized to issue declarations that provide states with federal assistance in response to natural and man-made incidents. The requests are judged based on criteria that take into account damage to infrastructure, existing insurance coverage and a state’s population, among others.

But the president ultimately has the authority to approve or reject a disaster aid request regardless whether the criteria are met.

Mr. Newsom said on Friday morning that he would appeal the denial — and had apparent success in persuading the president during their afternoon phone call.
...

Miles Taylor, a former senior Trump administration official who has endorsed Joseph R. Biden Jr.’s presidential campaign, said in August that Mr. Trump’s reluctance to aid California was overtly political.

“He told us to stop giving money to people whose houses had burned down from a wildfire because he was so rageful that people in the state of California didn’t support him and that politically it wasn’t a base for him,” Mr. Taylor says in a campaign video.


However, many of the largest fires in California over the past four years have ravaged areas that tend to vote Republican.

All emphases are mine.





« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 04:16:20 AM by Florestan »
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Offline Brewski

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2020, 04:47:45 AM »
And I see that some here need a reminder already (my emphasis):

"3. Trolling will not be tolerated, and this restriction in particular will be more rigorously enforced than before. From the general forum guidelines: A forum troll is someone who intentionally posts derogatory or inflammatory messages [...] with the deliberate intent to bait users into responding. This can range from very subtle jibes to outright personal attacks. [...] do not try to deliberately provoke another member into an ill-natured argument."

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Offline Florestan

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2020, 04:54:41 AM »
Trump family voted by mail.

Fact check: partially true.

Trump himself and various members of his family and administration voted by mail at various points in time. However, for the 2020 Presidential elections Donald Trump and Melania Trump voted in person. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner voted by mail.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/oct/25/facebook-posts/no-trump-did-not-vote-twice-nov-3-election/:

 https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/03/us/politics/melania-trump-vote-mask.html

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/ivanka-trump-mocked-over-desperate-us-election-day-message/FZ6KKAM2JQLFK467SNRVSJHOJQ/:

Quote
A lot of people voted by mail because there is a pandemic.

A few months ago some people here, including you, expressed great concern that the USPS headed by Trump's minion Louis DeJoy will deliberately mismanage, mishandle and delay mail ballots. Do you still believe that to have been the case?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2020, 04:58:20 AM by Florestan »
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2020, 05:25:42 AM »
I honestly don’t see Trump conceding and he’ll probably end up being evicted from the White House. He’ll never admit defeat even though by large he simply doesn’t have the electoral college votes. He can contest Michigan, Arizona, Nevada, Georgia, Pennsylvania all he wants, there hasn’t been any hard evidence that voter fraud has occurred and even if this ends up at the Supreme Court, they’ll throw it out, because it’s not just one or two states he’s contesting, but many of them. Many believe this to be another 2000 election, but it’s not. It’s quite evident that Trump lost. Some news commentator mentioned that the mail-in ballot is a Republican’s worst enemy, I would say no, a Republican’s worst enemy is supporting this cretin we currently have in office. I can guarantee you that if the shoe was on the foot and Biden lost, this wouldn’t be happening, because we have to remember that Biden isn’t a stable genius like Trump.

It's a matter of time, and of how much distrust and hate Trump and his spineless enablers gin up in Trumpworld.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2020, 05:36:23 AM »
From newspaper op-eds to network TV interviews, Ben Ginsberg, recently retired from his work for the law firm that has represented President Trump’s campaigns, has denounced the baseless claims by Trump and his GOP allies that last week’s election was rigged and rife with fraud.

“For the president of the United States, the leader of the free world and head of the Republican Party, to make completely unsubstantiated charges about our elections being rigged is not right,” he said in an interview.

Whereas Ginsberg said the 2000 recount was a legitimate legal issue — a recount in a single state with the two candidates separated by just 537 votes — he said the Trump campaign has no legal basis to dispute the victory by President-elect Joe Biden.

RTWT here.
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Offline Todd

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2020, 05:51:55 AM »
I am a bit surprised that the press/public mostly sees it as a done deal despite the legal fights to come. Is the main difference to 2000 Bush vs. Gore that too many states would have to be revised/recounted or that the supposed indications of irregularities are generally too weak to get recounts or the like even going?


The Electoral College meets on December 14th.  The victor will be selected then.  The lawsuits will not change the constitutionally mandated process, and recounts almost never result in the desired outcomes of those demanding recounts, and certainly would not here.  That applied in 2000, as well.  It's over.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2020, 05:54:25 AM »
Christian Schneider:

According to Joseph Stalin biographer Simon Sebag Montefiore, Stalin grew so powerful that when he gave a speech and mispronounced a word, every speaker would mispronounce the word in the same way.

“If I’d said it right, Stalin would have felt I was correcting him,” remembered Stalin protégé Vyacheslav Molotov, noting the Soviet leader was “very touchy and proud.”

Donald Trump is obviously not Stalin: he doesn’t conduct show trials, send his political opponents to gulags, or starve millions of his own people to death.

In a way, though, that makes the embarrassing post-2020 election obeisance of Republican politicians even more confounding. If they rightly acknowledge Trump’s election loss was not due to vote “fraud” and concede Joe Biden will, in fact, be president on January 20 next year, the worst they will suffer is an angry tweet from the president.

And yet they trot right out, single file, humiliating themselves in order to soothe the “very touchy and proud” adolescent in the Oval Office. Newt Gingrich, a man who knows how elections work, said Trump fell to a “corrupt and stolen election.” On the Senate floor, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said Trump is “100 percent within his right” to pursue recounts and litigation.
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Offline Handelian

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2020, 06:00:29 AM »
It amuses me as a disinterested third party from another country, the self-righteous condemnation of Trump for contesting the election and accusing him of stirring up hate. I seem to remember that four years ago there were incredible protests by the other side concerning Trump’s victory with unsubstantiated claims and also people demonstrating for weeks saying how much they hated Trump. A guy I read was even attacked by one of the mob of Trump haters for questioning their motives!  :D

Offline BWV 1080

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2020, 06:04:56 AM »
Christian Schneider:

According to Joseph Stalin biographer Simon Sebag Montefiore, Stalin grew so powerful that when he gave a speech and mispronounced a word, every speaker would mispronounce the word in the same way.

“If I’d said it right, Stalin would have felt I was correcting him,” remembered Stalin protégé Vyacheslav Molotov, noting the Soviet leader was “very touchy and proud.”

Donald Trump is obviously not Stalin: he doesn’t conduct show trials, send his political opponents to gulags, or starve millions of his own people to death.

In a way, though, that makes the embarrassing post-2020 election obeisance of Republican politicians even more confounding. If they rightly acknowledge Trump’s election loss was not due to vote “fraud” and concede Joe Biden will, in fact, be president on January 20 next year, the worst they will suffer is an angry tweet from the president.

And yet they trot right out, single file, humiliating themselves in order to soothe the “very touchy and proud” adolescent in the Oval Office. Newt Gingrich, a man who knows how elections work, said Trump fell to a “corrupt and stolen election.” On the Senate floor, Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said Trump is “100 percent within his right” to pursue recounts and litigation.

Not confounding at all, they don't want to alienate Trump supporters who have the power to replace them in the next primary.  They all know the fraud allegations are baseless and Biden will be president.  There is also some quid pro quo for the Dems attempts to delegitimize Trump's 2016 victory.  This is why you hear language like ' he has every right to look into allegations' 

Offline BasilValentine

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2020, 06:08:51 AM »
It's rather painful to see Biden going through the "bipartisan" moves, even while McConnell c.s. are sawing off his legs at the knees, by calling the elections illegit.

No, Biden is doing exactly the right thing. You can relax. The dispute of the election is just a fund raising scam. The RNC is strapped for cash and Trump supporters are sheep lining up to be fleeced. Close to 0% of the money raised by the supposed legal fund to contest election results will be used for that purpose. (That is, 0% of any donation under $5,000) The money goes to super PACs and the RNC. Mitch knows this and Joe knows this. 

Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2020, 06:09:56 AM »
Saw this story (on CNN) this morning about how some of the GOP are trying to discredit votes in Nevada claiming that people who had a change of address to a different state were not allowed to vote in Nevada.  The problem is:  the votes are from people in the military and/or their spouses who are still legally residents of Nevada (per state and federal law)!  Or they could also be college kids!

https://www.wral.com/military-spouses-say-gop-labeled-their-votes-fraudulent/19380286/

PD