Author Topic: USA Politics (redux)  (Read 11654 times)

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Offline T. D.

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #460 on: November 21, 2020, 03:09:34 PM »
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55030617

Republican officials in Michigan have written to the state's electoral board to request a two-week adjournment.

They have called for an audit of the presidential vote in the largest county, home to Detroit, after it was contested by President Donald Trump.

However, the Michigan Department of State has quickly objected to the idea, saying delays and audits are not permitted by law.

Online Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #461 on: November 21, 2020, 03:13:12 PM »
     I think the Trump strategy is misunderstood. At no point was the quality of the legal cases brought of any relevance. The numerous cases amount to a pretext for public consumption. The real battle is convincing state officials to substitute Biden electors with Trump electors. That's the battle Trump is fighting and losing. Public agitation was supposed to give these champions of healthy democracy cover. It hasn't worked. Trump lost too many states by too many votes.
Perhaps that was his strategy or maybe a combo of "We'll see what sticks and trying to rile up his most fervent of voters to to help encourage the electors too switch?"  Or maybe even some cover?  I don't know and try not to be that cynical to be honest.

I did see this at my end (from a BBC article today)--an extract:

"Republican officials in Michigan have written to the state's electoral board to request a two-week adjournment.
They have called for an audit of the presidential vote in the largest county, home to Detroit, after it was contested by President Donald Trump.
However, the Michigan Department of State has quickly objected to the idea, saying delays and audits are not permitted by law.
Democrat Joe Biden was projected as the state's winner earlier this month.
The Michigan electoral board, made up of two Democrats and two Republicans, is set to meet on Monday and certify election results.
Their decision has to be signed off by Michigan's secretary of state and then the governor, both Democrats and so is unlikely to support any changes, without substantiated reasoning.
The state department has called claims of widespread fraud, repeated by President Trump and the local Republicans, "wholly meritless".

Here's the whole article here:  https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55030617

I'd like to know who the "Republican officials" were/are mentioned herein.

PD

Online Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #462 on: November 21, 2020, 03:14:41 PM »
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55030617

Republican officials in Michigan have written to the state's electoral board to request a two-week adjournment.

They have called for an audit of the presidential vote in the largest county, home to Detroit, after it was contested by President Donald Trump.

However, the Michigan Department of State has quickly objected to the idea, saying delays and audits are not permitted by law.

We're posting at the same time about the same article! I was slower at my end (doing some edits, etc.) though.

Best,

PD

Offline milk

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #463 on: November 21, 2020, 03:15:49 PM »
Maybe I should move to Japan --- it sounds like my kind of place. :)
Japan hasn’t had serious lockdowns either. It’s definitely impacted the economy a lot though. But social distancing is sort of a cultural feature. It can be a real negative in terms of mental and societal health, but it probably saved Japan from COVID.

Offline drogulus

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #464 on: November 21, 2020, 03:22:42 PM »
Perhaps that was his strategy or maybe a combo of "We'll see what sticks and trying to rile up his most fervent of voters to to help encourage the electors too switch?"



     That's what I just said. Trump came up one Reichstag fire short is all. The Good People On Both Sides failed to appear.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 03:24:42 PM by drogulus »
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Offline Florestan

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #465 on: November 21, 2020, 11:32:29 PM »
     Trump came up one Reichstag fire short is all.

I try hard to make sense of this phrase. I really do.
“Especially as far as I am concerned, romanticism is not the bloodless intellectual commitment to a program, but the expression of my most profound mind and soul.” --- Sergei Bortkiewicz (1877-1952)

Offline Herman

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #466 on: November 22, 2020, 12:59:16 AM »
Quote
Trump came up one Reichstag fire short is all. The Good People On Both Sides failed to appear.

There are two months left

Offline Herman

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #467 on: November 22, 2020, 01:29:34 AM »
     I think not. It looks that way because people think real lawyers abandoning ship and Giuliani taking over is strategically significant. It's not, and Giuliani is just as good as a genius lawyer for the intended purpose and perhaps better. He makes the right noises and keeps Trumpists riled up. Trump doesn't need genius lawyers to handle garbage cases. He doesn't want or need to lose these cases any differently than he's doing with Rudy. Are not the judges part of the conspiracy? But of course they are!

     It's not magic, though the legal misdirection has some of that flavor.

Short of staging an actual non pseudo-legal coup in December (which would be hard since the generals are not thus inclined) what Trump is now about is is stoking resentment and anger among his base, so he'll keep calling the shots after January 20.

People who are thinking some kind of normal will return when Biden is in the (thoroughly disinfected hopefully)  White House may be in for a disappointment. There's nothing that will keep Trump from tweeting to his tens of millions of followers, keeping the flame of "rigged election" and "stop the steal" alive. In that way he'll keep Republican leadership in thrall, too.

Offline Florestan

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #468 on: November 22, 2020, 03:14:55 AM »
what Trump is now about

Trump is already history. This de facto situation will be established de jure on December 12, 2020 and will be effective January 20, 2021. Anyone who after that will still be commenting on what Trump does says and twitters will prove ipso facto that TDS is real.

“Especially as far as I am concerned, romanticism is not the bloodless intellectual commitment to a program, but the expression of my most profound mind and soul.” --- Sergei Bortkiewicz (1877-1952)

Online Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #469 on: November 22, 2020, 03:55:34 AM »
     That's what I just said. Trump came up one Reichstag fire short is all. The Good People On Both Sides failed to appear.



Location: Watertown, MA« Reply #463 on: November 21, 2020, 11:36:59 AM »
Quote
Quote from: Herman on November 21, 2020, 11:05:07 AM
According to most reporting "strategy" and "Trump" don't go in one sentence very well.

He is just throwing stuff against the wall hoping something will stick.


Your response Drogulus:
    I think not. It looks that way because people think real lawyers abandoning ship and Giuliani taking over is strategically significant. It's not, and Giuliani is just as good as a genius lawyer for the intended purpose and perhaps better. He makes the right noises and keeps Trumpists riled up. Trump doesn't need genius lawyers to handle garbage cases. He doesn't want or need to lose these cases any differently than he's doing with Rudy. Are not the judges part of the conspiracy? But of course they are!

     It's not magic, though the legal misdirection has some of that flavor.
Too much quoting for me to do properly here.  You can scroll back to see my response which you then replied to.  So I don't understand why the 'angry faces' at me?  :(

Best wishes,

PD

Offline BasilValentine

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #470 on: November 22, 2020, 04:51:06 AM »
Short of staging an actual non pseudo-legal coup in December (which would be hard since the generals are not thus inclined) what Trump is now about is is stoking resentment and anger among his base, so he'll keep calling the shots after January 20.

People who are thinking some kind of normal will return when Biden is in the (thoroughly disinfected hopefully)  White House may be in for a disappointment. There's nothing that will keep Trump from tweeting to his tens of millions of followers, keeping the flame of "rigged election" and "stop the steal" alive. In that way he'll keep Republican leadership in thrall, too.

So convicted and jailed felons have unlimited internet access? :)

Reichstag fire? He was hoping for scary urban violence in Detroit and Philadelphia, but PA judges shut down his provocation there and in MI the certification of the vote today, if, as seems likely, that happens, will end that threat. He's still working on Arizona.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 04:58:11 AM by BasilValentine »

Offline Florestan

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #471 on: November 22, 2020, 06:00:06 AM »
Reichstag fire? He was hoping for scary urban violence in Detroit and Philadelphia, but PA judges shut down his provocation there and in MI the certification of the vote today, if, as seems likely, that happens, will end that threat.

Wait a minute! Are you saying that the rule of law is up and running in the USA under Trump's presidency? My, my...

Es gibt noch Richter in Berlin Die Vereinigten Staaten! --- if you know what I mean.  ;D
“Especially as far as I am concerned, romanticism is not the bloodless intellectual commitment to a program, but the expression of my most profound mind and soul.” --- Sergei Bortkiewicz (1877-1952)

Offline Herman

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #472 on: November 22, 2020, 06:10:10 AM »
So convicted and jailed felons have unlimited internet access? :)

my assumption is this is not going to happen...

Offline Florestan

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #473 on: November 22, 2020, 06:41:09 AM »
December 14th is when the Electoral College meets, and January 6th is when Congress tallies the votes and declares the new President.  Super-Creepy 46 takes power at noon on January 20, 2021.

I got only one date correct out of three. I stand corrected but my argument stands nevertheless.

Quote
Trump may announce his candidacy for the 2024 race.  This serves several purposes.  It keeps him relevant.  It also provides potential legal cover for his alleged nefarious deeds.  It would be somewhat unseemly for the party in power to actually prosecute a high profile political opponent.  Even if Trump does not announce and run, it will prove a bit tricky politically for feds to vigorously pursue Trump.  But he will remain more significant than most prior presidents when leaving office.  This is distinct from TDS, which is a very real thing.

I really wonder: who was the very first POTUS to be widely regarded and publicly denounced as a traitor to the FF's ideals, as a would-be dictator and as one whose nefarious legacy would take decades to undo? My uneducated guess is that Trump is not that very first.
“Especially as far as I am concerned, romanticism is not the bloodless intellectual commitment to a program, but the expression of my most profound mind and soul.” --- Sergei Bortkiewicz (1877-1952)

Offline JBS

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #474 on: November 22, 2020, 06:44:12 AM »
I got only one date correct out of three. I stand corrected but my argument stands nevertheless.

I really wonder: who was the very first POTUS to be widely regarded and publicly denounced as a traitor to the FF's ideals, as a would-be dictator and as one whose nefarious legacy would take decades to undo? My uneducated guess is that Trump is not that very first.

John Adams, followed closely by Thomas Jefferson.
Although it was a bit too early for people to use the word "legacy".

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Offline Florestan

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #475 on: November 22, 2020, 07:00:53 AM »
John Adams, followed closely by Thomas Jefferson.

Good company for Donald, eh?  ;D ;D ;D
“Especially as far as I am concerned, romanticism is not the bloodless intellectual commitment to a program, but the expression of my most profound mind and soul.” --- Sergei Bortkiewicz (1877-1952)

Offline Todd

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #476 on: November 22, 2020, 07:06:45 AM »
A feel good story from the failing New York Times: Republican Resistance Looms in the Senate for Biden’s Nominees
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Everything dies - Alien Bounty Hunter, The X-Files

Everyone dies - William Barr, United States Attorney General

Offline Florestan

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #477 on: November 22, 2020, 07:14:31 AM »
John Adams, followed closely by Thomas Jefferson.
Although it was a bit too early for people to use the word "legacy".

Am I correct in thinking that the only universally admired and unanimously uncontroversial POTUS was George Washington, and that after him everything went downhill headlong along those partisan lines he dreaded so much albeit naively? Am I correct in thinking that Trump has been no more divisive and hated today than Andrew Jackson has been in his time? Am I correct in thinking that nihil novum sub sole?
“Especially as far as I am concerned, romanticism is not the bloodless intellectual commitment to a program, but the expression of my most profound mind and soul.” --- Sergei Bortkiewicz (1877-1952)

Offline Todd

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #478 on: November 22, 2020, 07:21:37 AM »
Am I correct in thinking that the only universally admired and unanimously uncontroversial POTUS was George Washington, and that after him everything went downhill headlong along those partisan lines he dreaded so much albeit naively? Am I correct in thinking that Trump has been no more divisive and hated today than Andrew Jackson has been in his time? Am I correct in thinking that nihil novum sub sole?


You are incorrect.  George Washington was not universally admired and certainly was not unanimously uncontroversial, not even close. 
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Everything dies - Alien Bounty Hunter, The X-Files

Everyone dies - William Barr, United States Attorney General

Offline Florestan

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Re: USA Politics (redux)
« Reply #479 on: November 22, 2020, 07:28:24 AM »

You are incorrect.  George Washington was not universally admired and certainly was not unanimously uncontroversial, not even close.

Hah!  :D :D :D

So he was the first traitor and would-be dictator?
“Especially as far as I am concerned, romanticism is not the bloodless intellectual commitment to a program, but the expression of my most profound mind and soul.” --- Sergei Bortkiewicz (1877-1952)