USA Politics (redux)

[Todd]

Potent stuff from The Graun: Trump's coup is failing but American democracy is still on the critical list

[milk]

Potent stuff from The Graun: Trump's coup is failing but American democracy is still on the critical list

I don't get the resentful cynical scorn. I'm not naive either and it is Washington. But still, what's so great about a whole party, millions of people, and elected officials who know better, latching onto this idea that American democracy is no longer legitimate. I can see how or why you poo poo the headline. So far it looks like the gears of democracy are turning inexorably. But it's toxic. I can see it in my family with the one family member who's bought into it. It comes with a host of poisons. It means we're not going to talk about ideas any time soon and there are consequences here that could even turn violent. That's a good chunk of people who really want live in a twisted reality. And I'm well aware of toxicity on many sides of the political spectrum. I'm just saying that this change tump sold his people ain't good and ain't harmless. You can pick out the most outrageous headlines and arguments on the anti-tump side, but that'd be a straw man, wouldn't it?

[Todd]

I don't get the resentful cynical scorn. I'm not naive either and it is Washington. But still, what's so great about a whole party, millions of people, and elected officials who know better, latching onto this idea that American democracy is no longer legitimate. I can see how or why you poo poo the headline. So far it looks like the gears of democracy are turning inexorably. But it's toxic. I can see it in my family with the one family member who's bought into it. It comes with a host of poisons. It means we're not going to talk about ideas any time soon and there are consequences here that could even turn violent. That's a good chunk of people who really want live in a twisted reality. And I'm well aware of toxicity on many sides of the political spectrum. I'm just saying that this change tump sold his people ain't good and ain't harmless. You can pick out the most outrageous headlines and arguments on the anti-tump side, but that'd be a straw man, wouldn't it?

What?

[drogulus]

I don't get the resentful cynical scorn.

     Are you sure about that? Trump has attempted a coup. Those who claim it wasn't happening turned out to be wrong. Those who claim it wasn't serious were wrong.

     Most people thought it would fail. That failure, though, is not evidence that it didn't happen.

     The wrongsters can't make 2+2=5, so they attack any and all messengers who say 2+2=4.

[drogulus]

     It's interesting to find that European ignorami get what's happening in the US almost as well as Americans do.

Brussels-based political scientist Roland Freudenstein, director of the Wilfried Martens Centre for European Studies, sees the glass of democracy half-full, as well as half-empty. "On the one hand, the U.S. democracy redeemed itself in the eyes of Europe because the madman was not reelected. On the other hand, there's a huge discrediting of the U.S. democracy by the incumbent who is basically hollowing out the democratic process from the inside." Trump's refusal to accept the results of the election is not just weakening American democracy, Freudenstein says, but also democratic governments all over the world. "We always expected he would cause trouble and mischief, but even moderate Republicans thought this would stop after 10 days or two weeks — but it's not stopping."

For Marius Dragomir, Director of the Center for Media, Data and Society in Budapest, who grew up in Romania where his family once huddled around the radio listening to Radio Free Europe with the volume low and the drapes closed, Trump's recent attacks on the electoral process along with his actions over the past four years are heartbreaking. "America was the model and the dream for Eastern Europe, especially after 1990. But it's not anymore," he says, "especially after Trump."

     How they do that? Doesn't knowledge stop at the water's edge?

     Don't be too embarrassed to state the obvious. Some things are true even if the media says so.

[Florestan]

     For Marius Dragomir, Director of the Center for Media, Data and Society in Budapest, who grew up in Romania where his family once huddled around the radio listening to Radio Free Europe with the volume low and the drapes closed, Trump's recent attacks on the electoral process along with his actions over the past four years are heartbreaking. "America was the model and the dream for Eastern Europe, especially after 1990. But it's not anymore," he says, "especially after Trump."[/i]

Ahem!.... are you sure it's Budapest? Judging by the guy's name and by the fact he is Romanian, it should rather be Bucharest.    Heck, my family too listened to Radio Free Europe and the Voice of America (in our neck of the woods the latter was less jammed than the former.)

But then again, I've never ever heard of him or of the Center for Media, Data and Society....

[MusicTurner]

Ahem!.... are you sure it's Budapest? Judging by the guy's name and by the fact he is Romanian, it should rather be Bucharest. 

But then again, I've never ever heard of him or of the Center for Media, Data and Society....

It is Budapest
https://people.ceu.edu/marius_dragomir

[Florestan]

It is Budapest
https://people.ceu.edu/marius_dragomir

Traitor! 

[drogulus]

     https://www.youtube.com/v/DiUzRdJI-YY&ab_channel=ChillTV

     We are assured by this media outlet that the coup that's not happening is not over yet.

It is Budapest
https://people.ceu.edu/marius_dragomir

     He used to work for the Open Society Foundation.

Traitor! 

     You're right. He used to work for the Open Society Foundation.

[Florestan]

      You're right. He used to work for the Open Society Foundation.

Worse than a traitor, a Soros-ist. 

[drogulus]

     https://www.youtube.com/v/TQ0imduTI1Y&ab_channel=NTD

[Karl Henning]

And, on the theme of The President Bullshits Endlessly, So We Just Bullshit Along With Him:

"Sidney Powell's secret 'military intelligence expert,' key to fraud claims in election lawsuits, never worked in military intelligence"

[MusicTurner]

     It's interesting to find that European ignorami get what's happening in the US almost as well as Americans do.
(...)

    I came across the original source:
https://news.yahoo.com/trumps-desperate-gambit-to-stay-in-office-alarms-europeans-who-know-about-coups-233538288.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw&tsrc=twtr

    Concerning the militant right, I also checked up a bit on Sidney Powell. Her rhetoric is quite typical of the extreme right. Until a few days ago, she was a member of #45's chosen "Elite Team", and this is some of the stuff that she has retweeted within the last 24 hours, besides tweets from #45, and some with religious colouring. She seems as radicalized as Bannon, but then, after all, she's also less of a figure of the past. People seem to agree that it really is her account.

- "Trump still has two major paths to victory. Path 1: Civil path with a big SCOTUS win. Path 2: Military path using his 2018 EO. Lets all hope SCOTUS makes the right decision."

- "OPINION: We Just Moved One Step Closer To A Second Civil War Or A Huge Secession Movement! So Very Sad That 2020 Was The Year Justice Died In America!"

- "We will decimate the deep state and anyone that protects them as it is our duty to take down tyranny. This election was run like a 3rd world cesspool all while foreign attacks by the CCP on our sovereignty continue. We should be declaring war on the ChiCom's."

(https://twitter.com/SidneyPowell1)
(https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/1337679783614947328)

[Karl Henning]

"A military path"? Lawd!

[Florestan]

   - "OPINION: We Just Moved One Step Closer To A Second Civil War Or A Huge Secession Movement! So Very Sad That 2020 Was The Year Justice Died In America!"

- "We will decimate the deep state and anyone that protects them as it is our duty to take down tyranny. This election was run like a 3rd world cesspool all while foreign attacks by the CCP on our sovereignty continue. We should be declaring war on the ChiCom's."

Who's going to take this drivel seriously, I wonder?

[Florestan]

"A military path"? Lawd!

There'll be a cold day in Hell before that! 

[Karl Henning]

Who's going to take this drivel seriously, I wonder?

In the sense that this is actual bilge coming out of Trumpworld?

Or in the sense that all this bilge is actual battering against democracy?

It would be irresponsibly naive (at best) to just laugh it off.

Are the death threats from Trumpworld "nothing"?

[MusicTurner]

Who's going to take this drivel seriously, I wonder?

Interesting question. Her views have been known for long, and yet she qualified for #45 at first, like Bannon. As said, you'll encounter such ideas quite a lot among the extreme right people.

Interesting this one today also, from the head of the GOP in Texas, suggesting Trump-friendly ("law-abiding") states secession:
"... this decision establishes a precedent that says states can violate the US constitution and not be held accountable. This decision will have far-reaching ramifications for the future of our constitutional republic. Perhaps law-abiding states should bond together and form a Union of states that will abide by the constitution."
He may be polemical, or fishing for votes, but nonetheless he outwardly introduces the idea in an official writing.

https://abc13.com/secession-texas-to-leave-us-allen-west-gop/8720150/
https://www.texasgop.org/chairman-allen-wests-response-to-scotus-decision/

[Florestan]

In the sense that this is actual bilge coming out of Trumpworld?

It is actual bilge. It's drivel. It's nothing. Trump lost. Whether he acknowledges or not, it doesn't matter. He's already history.

Or in the sense that all this bilge is actual battering against democracy?

Democracy will prevail December 14, 2020. It will also prevail January 20, 2021. Trump will not prevail against democracy.

It would be irresponsibly naive (at best) to just laugh it off.

On the contrary, it should be universally hailed as a resounding triumph of democracy and the rule of law.

Are the death threats from Trumpworld "nothing"?

No, not at all. All those threats should be prosecuted by the law, and all culprits should be punished according to the law. The rule of law should --- and I'm confident it will --- prevail.

[Florestan]

Interesting question. Her views have been known for long, and yet she qualified for #45 at first, like Bannon. As said, you'll encounter such ideas quite a lot among the extreme right people.

Interesting this one today also, from the head of the GOP in Texas, suggesting Trump-friendly ("law-abiding") states secession:
"... this decision establishes a precedent that says states can violate the US constitution and not be held accountable. This decision will have far-reaching ramifications for the future of our constitutional republic. Perhaps law-abiding states should bond together and form a Union of states that will abide by the constitution."
He may be polemical, or fishing for votes, but nonetheless he outwardly introduces the idea in an official writing.

https://abc13.com/secession-texas-to-leave-us-allen-west-gop/8720150/
https://www.texasgop.org/chairman-allen-wests-response-to-scotus-decision/

Who's going to take this drivel seriously, I wonder?