USA Politics (redux)

[Herman]

everything he does seems cynical and desperate and weak. He knows tump lost, too. What a poser. How do people live like that? He's a professional phony.

I think it's fair to say that among Republican members of the House and Senate the job is purely performative.

Virtually nothing they say is sincere or honest. It's pandering to the nth degree.

What I don't get with Cruz is it's so obvious he's a total phoney, willing to do anything and then some to be a US Senator (it's not like there isn't another way for a Princeton / Harvard Law School graduate to make a living) and still there is a sufficient number of Texans who are willing to vote this lugubrious clown into office, even though he's licking the shoes of the man who insulted his wife and his dad.

[T. D.]

I think it's fair to say that among Republican members of the House and Senate the job is purely performative.

Virtually nothing they say is sincere or honest. It pandering to the nth degree.

What I don't get with Cruz is it's so obvious he's a total phoney, willing to do anything and then some to be a US Senator (it's not like there isn't another way for a Princeton / Harvard Law School graduate to make a living) and still there is a sufficient number of Texans who are willing to vote this lugubrious clown into office, even though he's licking the shoes of the man who insulted his wife and his dad.

Not just a Senator. He and the odious Hawley (also with high-powered legal background) are seeking (to put it mildly) to be the new flag-bearers of Cheeto Mussolinism, and to run for POTUS.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-11/supreme-court-rejects-trump-bid-to-expedite-election-appeals

The U.S. Supreme Court refused to expedite election appeals filed by President Donald Trump to overturn President-elect Joe Biden's victories in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.

The orders, issued without comment or public dissent, are formalities with Biden is set to be inaugurated on Jan. 20.

[drogulus]

     Republican AGs group sent robocalls urging protesters to the Capitol. GOP officials now insist they didn't know about it.

After the attempted insurrection on Wednesday left a police officer and four others dead, several GOP attorneys general have distanced themselves from the robocalls, insisting they didn't know about the campaign. Alabama Attorney General Steve Marshall, the chairman of the Rule of Law Defense Fund, the nonprofit that sent out the calls, blamed the group's staffers.

"I was unaware of unauthorized decisions made by RLDF staff with regard to this week's rally," he said in a statement to the Montgomery Advertiser. "It is unacceptable that I was neither consulted about nor informed of those decisions. I have directed an internal review of the matter."

     Repub AGs remain committed to not knowing very much about what they did to support the march on the Capitol.

Despite claims from the attorneys general that the nonprofit played no role in organizing the rally, Documented reported that the website promoting the "March to Save America," rally, which was down as of early Monday morning, showed the Rule of Law Defense Fund among the organizations listed as participants.

Democratic attorneys general also noted that Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, who furthered Trump's baseless fraud claims in a failed lawsuit, spoke at the rally and that Sen. Josh Hawley (R-Mo.), a former attorney general, led the move to object to President-elect Joe Biden's win.

"Its former chair spoke at the rally that incited the mob," the group's statement said, referring to Paxton. "And former GOP A.G. Josh Hawley led the effort in Congress to undermine the election."

     I wasn't there, it wasn't me, a staffer did something wrong, do it to Julia.......

[Pohjolas Daughter]

From MSN's website

Former Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund's request for National Guard backup was denied, he says in interview
John Bacon, USA TODAY  1 hr ago

Former Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund says he requested that the National Guard be placed on standby in the days before the deadly riot at the U.S. Capitol but that House and Senate security officials turned him down.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/former-capitol-police-chief-steven-sunds-request-for-national-guard-backup-was-denied-he-says-in-interview/ar-BB1cElx3

PD

[Karl Henning]

(it's not like there isn't another way for a Princeton / Harvard Law School graduate to make a living)

Aye, but they may just entail good, honest work.

[drogulus]

     https://www.youtube.com/v/aEGthdTzedk&ab_channel=StoryfulRightsManagement

     "We love you, you're very special"

[Herman]

I can't believe people do these things, however I suspect many of them were drunk and coked-up.

There's some footage with a bunch of guys after the Capitol had been cleared (more or less) and they were just yelling "Traitor, traitor!" at cops standing at some distance. At the top of their lungs, the way small children can totally lose it, because they're totally possessed by one emotion.

Traitor has become a completely empty word, meaning something like, "someone who looks at things different than I". However, if the wrong bunch of guys had managed to corner Pence / Pounds he would have been killed.

[drogulus]

I can't believe people do these things, however I suspect many of them were drunk and coked-up.

There's some footage with a bunch of guys after the Capitol had been cleared (more or less) and they were just yelling "Traitor, traitor!" at cops standing at some distance. At the top of their lungs, the way small children can totally lose it, because they're totally possessed by one emotion.

Traitor has become a completely empty word, meaning something like, "someone who looks at things different than I". However, if the wrong bunch of guys had managed to corner Pence / Pounds he would have been killed.

     I think Pence would have been marched to the gallows. Without a doubt it was intended for him.

[T. D.]

From CNBC:

House Democrat tests positive for Covid, suspects she was exposed during Capitol attack

Rep. Bonnie Watson Coleman, D-N.J., tested positive for Covid-19 after sheltering with colleagues — some of whom refused to wear face coverings — during the Capitol insurrection last week.

The 75-year-old representative's office said "she believes she was exposed during protective isolation" after Trump supporters stormed the Capitol while Congress counted President-elect Joe Biden's election win. She appears to be the first member of Congress who has attributed a positive test to exposure during the riot.

On Sunday, the attending physician at the Capitol told House members they "may have been exposed to another occupant with coronavirus infection" while they sheltered in place.

A widely circulated video from Wednesday showed several House Republicans, who were not wearing face coverings, laughing when Rep. Lisa Blunt Rochester, D-Del., offered them masks. It is unclear if Watson Coleman was in the same room.

[Karl Henning]

Traitor has become a completely empty word, meaning something like, "someone who looks at things different than I".

A usage dating at least to Anne Coulter's "book."

[greg]

First, Apple and Google removed the app from their app stores because they said it had not sufficiently policed its users' posts, allowing too many that encouraged violence and crime

So... are we supposed to cheer that Parler is shut down because supposedly the people used it to coordinate the riot?

[BasilValentine]

So... are we supposed to cheer that Parler is shut down because supposedly the people used it to coordinate the riot?

Yes, we should cheer! Huzzah! Muzzle the mother f-----s. It's what one does with rabid animals.

In case you haven't noticed, we're in the middle of an insurrection.

[greg]

Yes, we should cheer! Huzzah! Muzzle the mother f-----s. It's what one does with rabid animals.

In case you haven't noticed, we're in the middle of an insurrection.

I think that probably it is for the best, temporarily, but I have some concerns about this action.

So you really don't have any other thoughts, at all, about it? None whatsoever?

[SimonNZ]

Doubtless you want to claim its a 'freedom of speech" issue.

[North Star]

That would be good.
I like how consistent your enthusiasm for prosecuting people doing bad stuff is with when the riots were going from people on the left for months nationwide, like when they were trying to burn down the Portland courthouse for days, and illegally sectioning part of Seattle to make the CHAZ.
That's really good that you can see doing dumb illegal stuff should be dealt with, regardless of political ideology. Being impartial and having higher principles is a good character trait.

I remember it being shrugged off like it's not a big deal, "oh, Fox News is just using a fish eye lense to make it look worse than it is," etc. and more.
Many times rioters were let go, no big deal, I guess.
So peaceful that it was at least 19 people that died?
(this isn't directed to you, but...)
Maybe... um... all (political) violence that isn't out of self-defense is bad?  Hmmm possibly in controversial territory there...

Lol, nice misrepresentation of everything.
Self-defense is not making up excuses. I was always against him going out there and defending businesses, that should always be handled by the cops.
But if someone has a gun and someone else is chasing that person, trying to attack them, they have a right to self-defense- doesn't matter who is carrying the gun, they can be Antifa, right-wing people, doesn't matter.

That's the difference- I'm able to think with nuance because I actually put moral values higher than left/right team sports. But your type of thinking is putting team sports above moral values, while pretending that is higher moral values.

The point of my original post was that it's funny how much selective outrage there is-
extreme left-wing people doing something very bad: "oh, but it's mostly peaceful protests, nothing to see here"
extreme right-wing people doing something very bad: "lock them all up!"

You can get lost in the reasons and justifications, but at the end of the day, that's the basic idea, and all that really matters for that observation.

I can throw around the word "tribalism"  some more, but it will be denied, of course
Maybe you should give it a shot since the lack of self-awareness and questioning your own beliefs is obvious.

I would like you to know that if you were somewhere in possession of a gun, and cameras recorded several people (let's just say they were right-wingers, doesn't matter), running after you trying to attack you, and you shot them, I'd be in full support of your right to self-defense. No questions.

That is all.

Interesting... where is the information saying they were white supremacists?

So... are we supposed to cheer that Parler is shut down because supposedly the people used it to coordinate the riot?

I don't see much nuance or moral values in all the whataboutism attempting to justify the coup attempt by Trump, comparing it to the violence surrounding the BLM protests (without any actual statistics about how much of the violence and murders was actually committed by Antifa, BLM protesters, black people, white people, white supremacists, police, counter-protesters, or teenagers traveling to different states with semiautomatic rifles), let alone consideration of the fact that those protests were about the police killing black people for no reason and with no consequences, as opposed to trying to stage a coup because you didn't get as many votes as the other guy. And you claim that you're above 'team sports' and tribalism. 

Also, companies have a right to not offer a platform for other companies or people who don't respect their terms of service. It's not a civil rights issue.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

On CNN currently (and mentioned earlier on air):  "The FBI had received information that all 50 state capitols, plus the US capitol in Washington, are being targeting in the days leading up to Biden's inauguration."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/11/politics/fbi-bulletin-armed-protests-state-us-capitol/index.html

PD

[greg]

I don't see much nuance or moral values in all the whataboutism attempting to justify the coup attempt by Trump, comparing it to the violence surrounding the BLM protests (without any actual statistics about how much of the violence and murders was actually committed by Antifa, BLM protesters, black people, white people, white supremacists, police, counter-protesters, or teenagers traveling to different states with semiautomatic rifles), let alone consideration of the fact that those protests were about the police killing black people for no reason and with no consequences, as opposed to trying to stage a coup because you didn't get as many votes as the other guy. And you claim that you're above 'team sports' and tribalism. 

Also, companies have a right to not offer a platform for other companies or people who don't respect their terms of service. It's not a civil rights issue.

You're not getting my point at all and redefining the issues in your own terms, so I'm not going to respond because that's just not a good start to any discussion.

Doubtless you want to claim its a 'freedom of speech" issue.

It is. This app was supposed to be for conservatives that were already being censored on big platforms.

But the problem is these people are making things worse by giving tech companies reasons to ban them- free speech ends at incitement to violence. So they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Do you have a problem with free speech if the opinion differs from yours? Or are you pro free speech (as long as it doesn't cause violence)?

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Acting Homeland Security chief Chad Wolf resigns.  Another resignation.  Who the heck there is left to look out for the US?!   

PD

[SimonNZ]

It is. This app was supposed to be for conservatives that were already being censored on big platforms.

But the problem is these people are making things worse by giving tech companies reasons to ban them- free speech ends at incitement to violence. So they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Do you have a problem with free speech if the opinion differs from yours? Or are you pro free speech (as long as it doesn't cause violence)?

They weren't kicked off the big platforms because they were merely "conservatives", it was because they were toxic or dangerous or both.

As I understand it Apple gave them 24 hours to come up with a better model of moderating but they couldn't or wouldn't do it.

[milk]

I don't see much nuance or moral values in all the whataboutism attempting to justify the coup attempt by Trump, comparing it to the violence surrounding the BLM protests (without any actual statistics about how much of the violence and murders was actually committed by Antifa, BLM protesters, black people, white people, white supremacists, police, counter-protesters, or teenagers traveling to different states with semiautomatic rifles), let alone consideration of the fact that those protests were about the police killing black people for no reason and with no consequences, as opposed to trying to stage a coup because you didn't get as many votes as the other guy. And you claim that you're above 'team sports' and tribalism. 

Also, companies have a right to not offer a platform for other companies or people who don't respect their terms of service. It's not a civil rights issue.

There's a lot of concepts here but it's not really difficult to hold these views at the same time.
1. Biden didn't incite BLM protests, though he could have criticized some of what happened more.
2. BLM we're mostly protests that got out of hand. In many cases they devolved into insanity.
3. The Capitol insurrection wasn't a protest that got out of hand. It was a deranged mob and a planned coup attempt.
4. We can imagine what would have happened if that mob got ahold of Pence or Pelosi.
5. If security were better, many more people would have died. They're lucky they're in prison instead of in a morgue, where they should be (I'm not wishing they were dead, but things should have worked better: which would mean many would be dead)
6. You can condemn the violence and property destruction during the BLM protests at the same time as (and for different reasons than) the Capitol mayhem.
7. Confederate flags and auschwitz t-shits! These are not merely misguided people, though some of the people in the mob are deeply confused.
8. Trum should be impeached. He has embarrassed the country and weakened American democracy.
9. FB and Twitter have a (1st amendment) right to cancel subscribers BUT it is worrying how much control a few companies have over the "public" forum. Canceling people without a process is troubling. Big SM companies should probably be regulated.