USA Politics (redux)

[BasilValentine]

I think that probably it is for the best, temporarily, but I have some concerns about this action.

So you really don't have any other thoughts, at all, about it? None whatsoever?

I do have other thoughts. What we're talking about here is cutting the enemy's lines of communication, disrupting command and control. The other actions are obvious. Find them. Dox them. Round them up. Make them suffer financially. Put them in cages. Get them out of law enforcement and the military..

[greg]

They weren't kicked off the big platforms because they were merely "conservatives", it was because they were toxic or dangerous or both.

Ok, so who gets to define what is "toxic"?

As for the the idea of tribalism, I can clarify a bit more maybe.

Some people here (who are left-leaning) have said they don't support violence on the left or right. They aren't tribalists.

While others largely dismiss, ignore, or say the violence on one side is "for a good cause", while enthusiastically speaking out against violence from the other side. And then get into petty comparison games about which is worse, when in reality they are both just very bad. Those are tribalists.

[greg]

I do have other thoughts. What we're talking about here is cutting the enemy's lines of communication, disrupting command and control. The other actions are obvious. Dox them. Expose them. Round them up. Make them suffer financially. Put them in cages. Get them out of law enforcement and the military..

Well, it really is that simple and there's no implications, nothing that could backfire down the road? Nothing? It'll all work out?

[milk]

Ok, so who gets to define what is "toxic"?

As for the the idea of tribalism, I can clarify a bit more maybe.

Some people here (who are left-leaning) have said they don't support violence on the left or right. They aren't tribalists.

While others largely dismiss, ignore, or say the violence on one side is "for a good cause", while enthusiastically speaking out against violence from the other side. And then get into petty comparison games about which is worse, when in reality they are both just very bad. Those are tribalists.

Both are bad. But Biden didn't do anything that necessarily disqualified him from holding office. Tump disqualified himself back in 2016 by suggesting he might not have accepted the results of that election, and by encouraging violence on several occasions. What happened at the Capitol was shocking but predictable. 

[SimonNZ]

While others largely dismiss, ignore, or say the violence on one side is "for a good cause", while enthusiastically speaking out against violence from the other side. And then get into petty comparison games about which is worse, when in reality they are both just very bad. Those are tribalists.

Absolutely nobody here has done that. You're told that's how lefties think and assume those here would have.

So who's the "tribal" one now, then?

[Brahmsian]

On CNN currently (and mentioned earlier on air):  "The FBI had received information that all 50 state capitols, plus the US capitol in Washington, are being targeting in the days leading up to Biden's inauguration."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/11/politics/fbi-bulletin-armed-protests-state-us-capitol/index.html

PD

Very scary stuff.

[greg]

Absolutely nobody here has done that. You're told that's how lefties think and assume those here would have.

Uh, yeah, Herman specifically. And many people were silent while the left was causing destruction during their riots this year. Yet you can see this thread erupt during this recent event (understandably).

So who's the "tribal" one now, then?

Dude, no one is going to get anywhere asking this question. I'm not much of a political person. And I'm practically allergic to being part of any groups.
Main things I am for in regards to politics is freedom of speech and absence of violence. Whoever is for both, I'm probably gonna be cool with that. That's about it.



Also, since the vast majority of people here are on the left, saying anything against the grain is going to be perceived as being far right or something, even if it isn't, so yeah...

[SimonNZ]

I'm not much of a political person. .

I can only take that to mean "proudly uninformed", which is nothing to be proud of. And it comes after you've unironically boasted about being a highly nuanced thinker.

But its clear you do have a political skew, even if you deny it, even if it doesn't go much beyond a twitter/YT bobblehead low-information-voter targeted spin, even if you're not aware its getting through and getting in.

[greg]

I can only take that to mean "proudly uninformed", which is nothing to be proud of.

Your words, not mine.

And it comes after you've unironically boasted about being a highly nuanced thinker.

"Boasting"- your perception, not mine.
Thinking isn't the same thing as "being informed." Some people can be addicted to information yet unable to process it.

But its clear you do have a political skew, even if you deny it

Sure, of course. I'm against extremism and authoritarianism,
Just today there were people I saw on youtube supporting the Capitol Hill thing and I was thinking about how stupid and tribalistic they were. If they posted here I'd say the same thing to them.

Question for you: Do you think the Capitol Hill incident was bad? And do you think the riots in 2020 were bad?

[T. D.]

https://sports.yahoo.com/bill-belichick-turning-down-presidential-medal-of-freedom-from-donald-trump-cites-capitol-attack-004322680.html

[T. D.]

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/11/people-will-try-to-kill-us-says-gop-lawmaker-on-going-against-trump.html

Republican Congressman Peter Meijer from Michigan was one of only nine freshmen GOP lawmakers who voted to uphold the Nov. 3 election results. He told CNBC's "The News with Shepard Smith" that his life could now be at risk because of it.

"We realize that was a vote we cast that put our safety at risk and going forward, I am expecting there will likely be more political violence," said Meijer. "So my expectation and the expectation of some folks I'm talking to who are trying to vote our conscience on this, there will be folks that try to kill us, and that's something we have to grapple with every day."

Meijer added that, in turn, that threat of violence has compelled and will continue to intimidate some of his Republican colleagues into voting on the side of the Trump administration. In an op-ed, Meijer wrote that a fellow lawmaker only objected to President-elect Joe Biden's win because they were afraid that President Trump's supporters would come after his or her family.

"That was what weighed on the colleague in mind's conscience (sic), and the last thing that that individual said to me, concern about the safety of that individual's family, if that individual voted to certify the election," Meijer said. "That is where the rhetoric has brought us. That is the degree of fear that's been created."

[SimonNZ]

Open ruled out for Trump's Turnberry as Bedminster stripped of 2022 US PGA

"The R&A has appeared to rule out Turnberry hosting the Open golf championship while it remains in the hands of Donald Trump - with its chief executive warning that they will not return to the Scottish course until they are "convinced that the focus will be on the championship".

The news comes after Trump National in Bedminster was stripped of next year's US PGA Championship with organisers insisting that using the course would be "detrimental" to their brand in the wake of the invasion of the US Capitol.

Last year the R&A said that Turnberry remained "absolutely in the pool of courses" to hold the Open, despite not staging the event since it was purchased by Trump in 2014. However, the R&A chief executive, Martin Slumbers, was much more circumspect on Monday, warning that he saw little chance of the event returning anytime soon – although he did not refer to the US president by name.

"We had no plans to stage any of our championships at Turnberry and will not do so in the foreseeable future," said Slumbers in a statement. "We will not return until we are convinced that the focus will be on the championship, the players and the course itself and we do not believe that is achievable in the current circumstances."[...]

[BasilValentine]

Well, it really is that simple and there's no implications, nothing that could backfire down the road? Nothing? It'll all work out?

There are no oracles, although, come to think of it, I've been predicting this outcome for years. Hmm. Those steps I listed are forced moves on any trajectory that serves the health of  the republic. We are in the present situation precisely because cowed, craven Repuglicans repeatedly refused to hold criminals accoutable for their criminal acts. Over and over, leading to the assumption of impunity on the part of the criminal in chief. The path is clear and I'm sure we'll sort out the consequences as we go. The GOP has left no other viable choice.

[milk]

There are no oracles, although, come to think of it, I've been predicting this outcome for years. Hmm. Those steps I listed are forced moves on any trajectory that serves the health of  the republic. We are in the present situation precisely because cowed, craven Repuglicans repeatedly refused to hold criminals accoutable for their criminal acts. Over and over, leading to the assumption of impunity on the part of the criminal in chief. The path is clear and I'm sure we'll sort out the consequences as we go. The GOP has left no other viable choice.

I can definitely envision this kind of thing blowing back the other way when a few people/corporations have total control over the public (I know, it's actually private) square AND we live in a time when a social media mob can destroy anyone's life without due process of any kind. Social media can also make you vanish from that public (ok, private) piazza (there's many a petition to vanish people right now and it's not a logical leap to imagine this being successful). 
I'm not saying Parlor doesn't deserve it. I don't know enough about it to say whether incitement is going on there with abandon. If it is, there has to be consequences. I'm assuming this will play out in court and we will get to see if the action is warranted. I'm not so comfortable with the state of things vis a vis social media. Anyway, I think twitter is 4 years too late when it comes to The Donald. 

[Herman]

Uh, yeah, Herman specifically.

No big deal, but thanks for lying about what I say / think. Complex issues are too hard for you, so you can't be blamed. Best is to encourage you to stay off political threads, esp as you're saying (disingenuously) you're not interested in politics. Your mask of impartiality is transparent to all here. Your preening vanity, too.

I haven't said that it's okay to destroy property for BLMers. I have said that it's to be expected, after significant social injustice, that property gets destroyed and looting occurs, not necessarily by BLM activists, but by opportunists in the bandwagon. This happens virtually every time since time immemorial. In the case of riots in Minneapolis and Portland there is substantial evidence there were rightwing groups destroying property, lighting fires and committing violence. Like for instance your hero Riitenhouse who travelled all day because he wanted to kill some.

[Mandryka]

[milk]

I'm guessing Giuliani is checking IN and not out. I like how trump is reading about trump.

[Brahmsian]

Trump's facial expression reads like:

"Where's the KFC menu?  Does DoorDash deliver here?"

[BasilValentine]

I can definitely envision this kind of thing blowing back the other way when a few people/corporations have total control over the public (I know, it's actually private) square AND we live in a time when a social media mob can destroy anyone's life without due process of any kind. Social media can also make you vanish from that public (ok, private) piazza (there's many a petition to vanish people right now and it's not a logical leap to imagine this being successful). 
I'm not saying Parlor doesn't deserve it. I don't know enough about it to say whether incitement is going on there with abandon. If it is, there has to be consequences. I'm assuming this will play out in court and we will get to see if the action is warranted. I'm not so comfortable with the state of things vis a vis social media. Anyway, I think twitter is 4 years too late when it comes to The Donald.

I also support anti-trust action against the monster firms. In my view that's a discussion for later. For now they're providing a good way to choke the terrorists

[greg]

Complex issues are too hard for you, so you can't be blamed.

So you wonder why I brought up IQ in the past, or talk about nuance, because you say stuff like this.

And then you say I'm bragging when I refute it. So how is defending one's self bragging and being vain? Guess I'm supposed to just let you say I'm dumb and move on?

Best is to encourage you to stay off political threads

You don't have to respond to me if you don't want to.

Your mask of impartiality is transparent to all here.

No one is 100% impartial. But I try to be as much as possible. You don't, at least based on what I've read from you.

I haven't said that it's okay to destroy property for BLMers.

You are subtly rephrasing the point I'm making into something else. I'm not saying that you are saying "it's OK."

My point is, when all this was happening, your attitude was more like "oh, that's just how it is," while never really speaking out against it.

But when people on the right do something bad now, it's passionate antagonism against them. Which is fine, but where was that months ago?

your hero Riitenhouse

I already made my position clear... why do you keep on saying I think he is a hero? Because I don't. You can stop using that word now.

because he wanted to kill some.

Stop repeating the same thing- I already made the point that knowing his intent would be like reading his mind.