USA Politics (redux)

[Herman]

Deadenders on perpetual repeat.

[Fëanor]

The purpose of protest was to protect life? Funny then there was so many people killed by the rampaging mob and so many lies threatened. The problem is that people will say the black is white and white is black according to their politics and not according to the facts. ...

Here's a couple of facts for you:

• BLM protests are based on the reality of systemic racism
• Assaulting the Capital was based on the lie of the stolen election.

[BasilValentine]

Trump had nothing to do with the BLM protests just as Johnson had nothing to do with them over here. Some of us don't believe every bit of propaganda that comes out. Saying things are lazy equivalents might sound good but it doesn't make it true. It is interesting that the present liberal elite are full of these convenient catch phrases.

You are uninformed.

Here is film of the assault Trump ordered against peaceful and lawfully assembled BLM protesters in Washington DC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbfmcys6gIY

Trump was personally responsible for ordering and inciting much of the violence at BLM protests because he knew it would please his racist and white supremacist supporters.

False equivalence isn't a catch phrase. It's a simple description of equating peaceful protesters with a violent and murderous mob attempting to overthrow the government.

[drogulus]

     Kevin McCarthy has announced he is in the process of not knowing very much about QAnon. Formerly he knew enough to say QAnon has no place in the Repub party. One day, perhaps soon, McCarthy will not know very much about anything at all, making him an ideal choice to lead his party as it is presently constituted.

[Karl Henning]

Well, Republican voters do prefer their elected officials not to know things.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

     Kevin McCarthy has announced he is in the process of not knowing very much about QAnon. Formerly he knew enough to say QAnon has no place in the Repub party. One day, perhaps soon, McCarthy will not know very much about anything at all, making him an ideal choice to lead his party as it is presently constituted.

Yes, I heard his comments about not knowing who they were... including mispronouncing their name. 

[milk]

It amuses me as a disinterested third party from another country, the self-righteous condemnation of Trump for contesting the election and accusing him of stirring up hate. I seem to remember that four years ago there were incredible protests by the other side concerning Trump's victory with unsubstantiated claims and also people demonstrating for weeks saying how much they hated Trump. A guy I read was even attacked by one of the mob of Trump haters for questioning their motives! 

You have to be able to keep more than one view in your head at one time. It's not hard. Trump didn't just "contest the election." He claimed victory before the votes were cast and then claimed it was stolen. He told his supporters before the election not to do mail in voting and then claimed victory before the mail-in votes were counted. After that, he spread lies and pressured officials and acted irresponsibly. No other president has rejected the democratic process like this. He primed and conned his supporters before the election and then acted belligerently after it according to his script. The upshot was a deadly embarrassment for the country. But trump told the world back in 2016 that he'd only accept elections if he won.
Demonstrations on the other side - various kinds - are ALSO wrong when they attack people, destroy property, etc.
but you have to be able to contain both views in your head.

[milk]

The fact that innocent were killed in the riots that took place last year doesn't matter? That is swept under the carpet by Biden and Harris. The fact that Democrats demonstrated four months outside in 2016 and for years tried to impeach Trump with a bogus accusations of Russian interference is nothing new? Come on, just typical that it once I do it it's okay and if another side do it it's wrong. The Democrats contested the 2016 election just as hotly. The hypocrisy they are showing is quite astounding

Trump got a lot of hatred from the left just as Obama got from the right and so on back in time. People are entitled to hate the president/candidate, his/her policies, party, etc. The democrats made a case that pressuring a foreign country to get involved in an election was an impeachable offense. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. The impeachment was not violent and the case was made, and rejected, by the Senate based on politics just like the one against Bill Clinton. You can think what you like about any of that stuff.
Trump did not "contest the election." He claimed it was a fraud and promised his supporters that if they fought hard enough they could overturn the process. He also tried to pressure officials as well to force the country into a worse crisis. The fact that so few lives were lost is a miracle.

[MusicTurner]

     Kevin McCarthy has announced he is in the process of not knowing very much about QAnon. Formerly he knew enough to say QAnon has no place in the Repub party. One day, perhaps soon, McCarthy will not know very much about anything at all, making him an ideal choice to lead his party as it is presently constituted.

[Herman]

Trump got a lot of hatred from the left just as Obama got from the right and so on back in time. People are entitled to hate the president/candidate, his/her policies, party, etc. The democrats made a case that pressuring a foreign country to get involved in an election was an impeachable offense. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. The impeachment was not violent and the case was made, and rejected, by the Senate based on politics just like the one against Bill Clinton. You can think what you like about any of that stuff.
Trump did not "contest the election." He claimed it was a fraud and promised his supporters that if they fought hard enough they could overturn the process. He also tried to pressure officials as well to force the country into a worse crisis. The fact that so few lives were lost is a miracle.

It's also worth keeping in mind that Trump basically ceased the business of governing from the oval office since late October (if not much earlier). The country is in various forms of crisis due to covid and joblessness; all he cared about was his reelection / legal immunity. If you think about it, it's pretty hard what the Trump deadenders are really wishing for, other than a giant vacuum in the government of the country.

[milk]

It's also worth keeping in mind that Trump basically ceased the business of governing from the oval office since late October (if not much earlier). The country is in various forms of crisis due to covid and joblessness; all he cared about was his reelection / legal immunity. If you think about it, it's pretty hard what the Trump deadenders are really wishing for, other than a giant vacuum in the government of the country.

It's exhausting arguing with these people. All they're doing is gaslighting. Trump and his people are a poison. They've really poisoned things. I've got family members who make believing all this stuff the condition upon which a relationship with them is possible. And when he stood up and ripped off his mask like a scene from a David Lynch movie, he encouraged people in that conspiratorial direction too. I can't come up with the language that's harsh enough to describe his unprecedented poisoning of American political life. I don't know, did Berlusconi do something similar to Italy? Only he didn't have nuclear codes.

[Fëanor]

It's also worth keeping in mind that Trump basically ceased the business of governing from the oval office since late October (if not much earlier). The country is in various forms of crisis due to covid and joblessness; all he cared about was his reelection / legal immunity. If you think about it, it's pretty hard what the Trump deadenders are really wishing for, other than a giant vacuum in the government of the country.

Some where above in this thread I suggested what is followers are looking for.  To boil it down to the essence, it's a more prosperous, White, less urban (or at least less urbane) American.  Trump was never able or willing to deliver this.

... There's the tragedy:  Trump was a complete fraud and his promises a delusion.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Some of you here might appreciate this segment from Saturday Night Live--the part about Trump and him not wanting to testify.  It's starts about 2:40 minutes in. :

https://ijr.com/snls-urges-trump-testify-during-senates-impeachment-trial/

PD

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Also wonder what people are doing voting for an old man who should have long since been retired! For four years too. Unless he was a convenient shoe-in for Harris

I believe(d) that he genuinely cares about people and the US and is not just there for himself or 'his dynasty' and is trying to make things better; just because one is older also doesn't mean they are incapable of doing a good job.  One learns things over the course of ones life; in many cultures, elders are respected.  And, he's worked throughout his lifetime to trying to help people by devoting his life to public service.  Please ponder this.

Respectfully,

PD

[DavidW]

Some of you here might appreciate this segment from Saturday Night Live--the part about Trump and him not wanting to testify.  It's starts about 2:40 minutes in. :

https://ijr.com/snls-urges-trump-testify-during-senates-impeachment-trial/

PD

That was good!  If you haven't seen it yet you should watch Spitting Image on YT.  Equal opportunity offenders, they make fun of everyone.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCov3Uxwgh6Fq_2F7oW9-hA

[Karl Henning]

Some where above in this thread I suggested what is followers are looking for.  To boil it down to the essence, it's a more prosperous, White, less urban (or at least less urbane) American.  Trump was never able or willing to deliver this.

... There's the tragedy:  Trump was a complete fraud and his promises a delusion.

Truly, tragedy because it was a choice. Anyone who paid attention (especially people from New York) knew all along that he's a fraud.

[bhodges]

I believe(d) that he genuinely cares about people and the US and is not just there for himself or 'his dynasty' and is trying to make things better; just because one is older also doesn't mean they are incapable of doing a good job.  One learns things over the course of ones life; in many cultures, elders are respected.  And, he's worked throughout his lifetime to trying to help people by devoting his life to public service.  Please ponder this.

Respectfully,

PD

This is my feeling, too, and confirmed by his reactions to things -- reactions to human beings and very human concerns. His predecessor was unable to comprehend any of this.

--Bruce

[bhodges]

Truly, tragedy because it was a choice. Anyone who paid attention (especially people from New York) knew all along that he's a fraud.

Yes. And as someone in New York in the 1980s and 1990s, can confirm this is the case. He was pretty much ostracized by anyone who was paying attention.

--Bruce

[Karl Henning]

You have to be able to keep more than one view in your head at one time. It's not hard. Trump didn't just "contest the election." He claimed victory before the votes were cast and then claimed it was stolen. He told his supporters before the election not to do mail in voting and then claimed victory before the mail-in votes were counted. After that, he spread lies and pressured officials and acted irresponsibly. No other president has rejected the democratic process like this. He primed and conned his supporters before the election and then acted belligerently after it according to his script. The upshot was a deadly embarrassment for the country. But trump told the world back in 2016 that he'd only accept elections if he won.
Demonstrations on the other side - various kinds - are ALSO wrong when they attack people, destroy property, etc.
but you have to be able to contain both views in your head.

It would also help if he argued in good faith.

[Karl Henning]

The fact that innocent were killed in the riots that took place last year doesn't matter? That is swept under the carpet by Biden and Harris.

False.

The fact that Democrats demonstrated four months outside in 2016 and for years tried to impeach Trump with a bogus accusations of Russian interference is nothing new?

Nothing bogus about the accusations.

Come on, just typical that it once I do it it's okay and if another side do it it's wrong. The Democrats contested the 2016 election just as hotly. The hypocrisy they are showing is quite astounding

Your embrace of outright falsehoods, and your lazy dependence upon false equivalence belie your disingenuous pose as "a disinterested observer."