USA Politics (redux)

[Karl Henning]

What this implies to me is that we -- or at least the common weal -- ought not to be judgement about an woman's decision for abortion.

Indeed.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Sorry, it starts at 1 p.m.!

[bhodges]

Sorry, it starts at 1 p.m.!

Trying to multitask, squeezing in some of it during a busy afternoon. But even though I'd seen the January 6 Capitol film footage before, it's still pretty raw and painful to watch.

--Bruce

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Trying to multitask, squeezing in some of it during a busy afternoon. But even though I'd seen the January 6 Capitol film footage before, it's still pretty raw and painful to watch.

--Bruce

Agreed.  I was thinking that it must be really hard for those who were there to watch the footage again; it certainly was for me. 

A virtual hug your way,

PD

[bhodges]

Agreed.  I was thinking that it must be really hard for those who were there to watch the footage again; it certainly was for me. 

A virtual hug your way,

PD

Hey, thanks for that! 

--Bruce

[Brahmsian]

Trying to multitask, squeezing in some of it during a busy afternoon. But even though I'd seen the January 6 Capitol film footage before, it's still pretty raw and painful to watch.

--Bruce

Yes, it was sickening to watch.

[Fëanor]

This is a non-argument. You have no basis in science for saying such a thing. A fetus has everything that the human being requires. All it requires is the chance to be born which people like you are trying to deny it

I think science would say that fetus does not yet possess full human consciousness;  it certainly has not had any significant human, versus rudimentary, experiences thus no awareness of the external world, no memories, and no self-awareness or awareness of other human beings

The question of human potential is irrelevant at this stage of development, that is, no more relevance that for an unfertilized ovum or sperm cell.  Millions of one or the other are "wasted" in a human lifetime.  Furthermore spontaneous abortions of embryos and miscarriages occur all the time with nothing to be done about the putative loss of human potential.

[Gurn Blanston]

This is a non-argument. You have no basis in science for saying such a thing. A fetus has everything that the human being requires. All it requires is the chance to be born which people like you are trying to deny it

And you have no basis in science for saying such a thing either. Your opinion has no more probative value than that of those who believe otherwise. By your own statement, you are saying that it is a potential human being, which lacks a crucial ingredient for being fulfilled. The withholding that ingredient is not your choice to make. Unless I only mistakenly believe you are of the male persuasion. Decisions of that nature are the sole responsibility of the person who must live the rest of her life with the consequences of that choice.

[Que]

This is a non-argument. You have no basis in science for saying such a thing. A fetus has everything that the human being requires. All it requires is the chance to be born which people like you are trying to deny it

A fetus will not develop into a child that can be born, unless a woman decides to carry it into full maturity.
Whether she decides to do so, is none of anyone's business. A pregnant woman is a person with a right to control of her own body, not an object that is purely instrumental and subordinate to the "right to be born" of any fetus she might carry.

A chicken egg has the potential to mature into a chick.
I wonder: do you consider yourself of killing a chicken every time you eat an egg? 

My general impression is that anti-abortionists' willingness to force women to have children is significantly bigger than their willingness to adopt all those unwanted kids to give them a loving home, or at least pay taxes to properly fund their upbringing. Or to pay taxes for a proper education for any kids, for that matter. No, they rather pay taxes for prisons that can be filled with social rejects when they grow up.

Q

[BasilValentine]

A baby will not develop into an adult if we kill it. Where is your logic? That appears to go out the window with you. Mind you you appear to think that human life is no more worth than chickens. By your logic then a woman has every right to kill her baby up to a certain age? If not why not? Perhaps if she feels the baby is going to become a social reject it would be better for her just to get rid of it? Like the people of Sparta did

Basic vocabulary: fetus/ferilized egg ≠ baby

And, by the way, if you believe a fertilized egg should be inviolate (like my evangelical mom does), then you should know that "God," or whomever or whatever you believe is responsible for the design of the female reproductive system, doesn't give a rat's a$$ about them. About 70% of fertilized eggs never implant in the uterus. By my mom's thinking that would mean God is responsible for the abortion of countless billions.

[Rinaldo]

Basic vocabulary: fetus/ferilized egg ≠ baby

And, by the way, if you believe a fertilized egg should be inviolate (like my evangelical mom does), then you should know that "God," or whomever or whatever you believe is responsible for the design of the female reproductive system, doesn't give a rat's a$$ about them. About 70% of fertilized eggs never implant in the uterus. By my mom's thinking that would mean God is responsible for the abortion of countless billions.

Patrick S. Tomlinson summed it up perfectly few years ago:

Whenever abortion comes up, I have a question I've been asking for ten years now of the "Life begins at Conception" crowd. In ten years, no one has EVER answered it honestly.

The question is as follows: Would you save one 5-year-old child from a burning building, or save 1,000 embryos. The point: No one actually thinks that embryos are the same as living children. But an entire movement is based on lying about it, and using that lie to manipulate people, in order to control women like slaves.

[Karl Henning]

Jennifer Rubin: Let's not forget that the only reason the impeachment, which the House voted on before Trump left office, was not sent to trial immediately was because then-Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and his fellow Republicans stalled. They break the hypocrisy meter by turning around and claiming that the Senate, therefore, cannot try Trump now.

[Que]

A baby will not develop into an adult if we kill it. Where is your logic? That appears to go out the window with you.

As has already been said: a fertilised egg or fetus is not a baby. Just like your egg at breakfast is not a chicken, and a seed is not a tree. This is entirely logical and no rocket science.

Q

[SimonNZ]

Would you save one 5-year-old child from a burning building, or save 1,000 embryos?

Heh. That's really good. I intend to use that at some point.

[SimonNZ]

So there are a 100 pregnant women and one baby? So what do you do?

Save the 100 women. Not because they're pregnant but because they're 100 women.

Not 100 " host bodies" as I seem to recall some Trumpists terming them.


So you've told us you're against abortion. Duly noted, for all your opinion is worth. Now move on.

[SimonNZ]

And if the 100 women I just saved all wanted to end their pregnancies I wouldn't think I had any say in the matter other than to remark on the statistical improbability.

[Que]

OK, guys. It is indeed time to move on - end of the abortion debate.

[Herman]

I just watched the 13 minute video produced for the impeachment hearing.

Or really I watched eleven minutes and then I couldn't take it anymore.

And it didn't even say "And here, on these stairs, a woman protester died as people trampled her, because they were too excited at their heroism."

The most charitable thing I can think of is these people were all coked up.

[bhodges]

Gentlemen, enough. If you want to continue discussion on the abortion issue, please continue via private messages. Thanks.

--Bruce

[Karl Henning]

Georgia prosecutors open criminal investigation into Trump's efforts to subvert election results