USA Politics (redux)

[71 dB]

If all that's left for this thread to do is provide a stage for 71s miseducation then it may as well be closed

Imo.

What the hell is your problem Simon? Maybe you have read every book in the World and you feel you know everything, but that doesn't mean other people don't have opinions or even knowledge about some things.

[Karl Henning]

If all that's left for this thread to do is provide a stage for 71s miseducation then it may as well be closed

Imo.

+ 1

[Fëanor]

If all that's left for this thread to do is provide a stage for 71s miseducation then it may as well be closed

Imo.

+ 1

Pathetic.  While I don't agree with 71db in every detail about the USA, his insights are acute overall.

Instead of just stomping off in snit, why not try to refute is points with valid facts and argument?

[71 dB]

Pathetic.  While I don't agree with 71db in every detail about the USA, his insights are acute overall.

Instead of just stomping off in snit, why not try to refute is points with valid facts and argument?

Thank you! Yes, bring it on if you disagree.  0:)

[SimonNZ]

+ 1


Pathetic.  While I don't agree with 71db in every detail about the USA, his insights are acute overall.

Instead of just stomping off in snit, why not try to refute is points with valid facts and argument?

Oh good lord. Is this insightful and acute:

Real Americans don't want to learn anything outside the US, right? When the facts say the US sucks at almost everything real Americans put their fingers in the ears and sing "LA LA LA LA I don't hear you LA LA LA..."

Maybe we should talk about the things in which the US is REALLY good at so Americans here don't feel so bad? Here is one: Wrestling! The US is unbelievable good at that, the best entertainment in the World! Hulk Hogan, The Undertaker, Stone Cold Steve Austin and about half a million other legendary entertainers! I am not kidding, it is something I really admire about the US.

And that's a milder example.

Any attempt to discuss with 71 and HE gets in a snit, calls us all brainwashed by the usual string of buzzword villains then gets in an even bigger snit that we don't accept that as he has watched a bunch of Youtube we should accept his more learned judgement.

EVERY attempt to present a position contrary to his own is taken as an affront, not as a chance to consider alternate points of view. Refuting his points with valid facts and argument has been attempted by a variety of people with a variety of beliefs. He lumps them all together as deluded fools.

I can only assume you haven't been reading him for very long. Some of us have had four long years of this. Four years of his obstinately doing exactly the LALALALA he claims of others. And now he's apparently happy to do it as a solo act. Pathetic.

[71 dB]

Oh good lord. Is this insightful and acute:

And that's a milder example.

Milder in the way that it wasn't supposed to be "insightful and acute", but a response to Karl Henning's:

"wake me when we're talking US Politics again."

Not my best moment, but I was feeling frustrated and tired.

Any attempt to discuss with 71 and HE gets in a snit, calls us all brainwashed by the usual string of buzzword villains then gets in an even bigger snit that we don't accept that as he has watched a bunch of Youtube we should accept his more learned judgement.

EVERY attempt to present a position contrary to his own is taken as an affront, not as a chance to consider alternate points of view. Refuting his points with valid facts and argument has been attempted by a variety of people with a variety of beliefs. He lumps them all together as deluded fools.

I can only assume you haven't been reading him for very long. Some of us have had four long years of this. Four years of his obstinately doing exactly the LALALALA he claims of others. And now he's apparently happy to do it as a solo act. Pathetic.

Just wow!  I know you are on the other side of the planet, but I never expected what I write look this "upside down" to what my intention is. I try to act as the voice of reason here. I suppose I just have to become better at this... 

[greg]

Instead of just stomping off in snit, why not try to refute is points with valid facts and argument?

Lol. Good luck with that.

EVERY attempt to present a position contrary to his own is taken as an affront, not as a chance to consider alternate points of view. Refuting his points with valid facts and argument has been attempted by a variety of people with a variety of beliefs. He lumps them all together as deluded fools.

Taken out of context, I would have thought you were talking about certain other posters here.

[Herman]

+ 1


Pathetic.  While I don't agree with 71db in every detail about the USA, his insights are acute overall.

Instead of just stomping off in snit, why not try to refute is points with valid facts and argument?

There is no obligation whatsoever to discuss 71dB. You can just discuss your own ideas on this topic and ignore the, indeed, pretty predictable Finnish input.

[71 dB]

This thread has been more about feelings than facts: Instead of how much money Medicare for All would save*, we are having a fight based on our feelings about what are reliable sources of information. I feel (some, certainly not all!) Youtubers provide reliable information. Others here feel Washington Post or books provide it. For me Youtube is the easiest way to information on this front. The real problem with Youtube is their algorithms and the way it threads different kind of Youtubers. There are huge problems with the platform, but still we can get reliable information from there if we watch good Youtubers. Books are slow. Something happens today. The books writing about it comes out in 2023 or so. Writers have agendas too. It's not like the information in books is magically better than elsewhere. Wherever the information comes from we should analyse it critically.

It is impossible to be bias-free. Bias is just the coordinate point of your opinions in opinion space. If you have any opinions, you have a bias. Some opinions are factually better than other opinion meaning they have better bias. Reliable sources of information make it clear what their bias is. You know where they come from and you can process what they say. Sources trying to hide their bias are dangerous. Wearing expensive suit doesn't make one reliable (often the other way around!). Having an university degree doesn't automatically makes someone reliable. Anyone can give good or bad information. Analysing it critically is the key.

* Different studies have different numbers:
https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/484301-22-studies-agree-medicare-for-all-saves-money

[Fëanor]

There is no obligation whatsoever to discuss 71dB. You can just discuss your own ideas on this topic and ignore the, indeed, pretty predictable Finnish input.

That would seem to be the simplest solution:  if you feel the 71dB or anyone can't be reasoned with, then don't try.

I'm not a fan of closing threads much less of banning people unless they engage in major personal abuse.

[71 dB]

That would seem to be the simplest solution:  if you feel the 71dB or anyone can't be reasoned with, then don't try.

I'm not a fan of closing threads much less of banning people unless they engage in major personal abuse.

I don't think my opinions are unreasonable and have to be reasoned with. What I say holds water when fact-checked.
Maybe that's why people here feel I can't be reasoned with?
If you are trying to convince me 2+2=5 and 2+2=4 is wrong because a Youtuber said so you will fail.

I did call people brainwashed in the past, but I have tried to cut it out. I'm sorry.

We all are a bit blind to things in our own country, the good and the bad. Listening to foreigners can give a lot of insight, because foreigners notice things we take for granted ourselves. It is not wise to dismiss the opinion of foreigners just because they are foreigners.

[André]

Poju, believe it or not, I agree with a lot of your opinions, including medicare for all. But the way you express them and denigrate the unconvinced or opponents like Moses coming down from the mountain or Jesus chasing the merchants from the temple, irritates people no end - including me. You MUST find a better way to argue your points. And stop hammering the same nail day after f...ng day. It just makes people want to bash you. If you can't convince someone with arguments, just accept it and stop being so frustrated (and showing it). Your behaviour is the very negation of the image we can have of someone living in the 'happiest country in the world'...

[Karl Henning]

If that's what Finns mean by "happiness," they can keep it.

[71 dB]

Poju, believe it or not, I agree with a lot of your opinions, including medicare for all. But the way you express them and denigrate the unconvinced or opponents like Moses coming down from the mountain or Jesus chasing the merchants from the temple, irritates people no end - including me. You MUST find a better way to argue your points. And stop hammering the same nail day after f...ng day. It just makes people want to bash you. If you can't convince someone with arguments, just accept it and stop being so frustrated (and showing it). Your behaviour is the very negation of the image we can have of someone living in the 'happiest country in the world'...

I totally accept the criticism concerning the style I express my opinions and there is room for improvement on that front. Life happens and I got too obsessed of US politics because of Trump, a person who really broke people's brains...  I'll try to change my style to be less irritating to others.

[71 dB]

If that's what Finns mean by "happiness," they can keep it.

Well, we don't want to give our happiness away. 

Most Finns are different from me. I am a weirdo, an Elgar fan in the land of Sibelius...

[71 dB]

Apparently* 49 % of Republican men aren't getting the vaccine. 


* According to my Youtube sources at least...

[drogulus]

That would seem to be the simplest solution:  if you feel the 71dB or anyone can't be reasoned with, then don't try.

     What if you don't feel that way and reason with him instead? I do that and have suffered no indignities.

[drogulus]

Apparently* 49 % of Republican men aren't getting the vaccine. 


* According to my Youtube sources at least...

     They want to repeal and replace the vaccine.

[71 dB]

     What if you don't feel that way and reason with him instead? I do that and have suffered no indignities.

What you say makes a lot of sense to me and you come out to me as a knowledgeable dude. 

     They want to repeal and replace the vaccine.

Who needs vaccines when you are already injected with stupidity? 

[Herman]

     What if you don't feel that way and reason with him instead? I do that and have suffered no indignities.

Well, good for you.

I like 71dB, he has my sympathy, but it's kind of hard to see the MfA being argued for the fiftieth time.