USA Politics (redux)

[drogulus]

I don't see "race" coming into it.

     The racial and religious theorists will bring it in whether you approve or not. There are certainly people all over Israel/Palestine who would like to dispense with categories that do nothing but make people miserable and promote war and hatred. That view makes you the enemy of the rulers. You're a traitor to the reigning orthodoxy.

[drogulus]

     Most evictees are not zealots for any cause. They probably want to be left alone and live in peace. They fear the authority that is most able to harm them more than the more distant one in Gaza. That's a practical judgment not based on moral universals.

     Palestinians fear loss of family homes as evictions loom

     Israel has these families in a chokehold. How can they "comply"?

[JBS]

Repeating that criticizing the policies of the government of Israel is anti-Semitic doesn't make it so.  Also, insisting that criticizing those policies is justifying the murder Israeli Jews doesn't make that so either.

Palestinian response to the creation of Israel and Israeli policies and action since has be fraught with stupidity and self-abuse.  True, but that does not justify Israeli oppression of Palestinians and its relentless, decades long drive to misappropriated ever more Palestinian territory.

Basil was not criticising Israel. He was defending Hamas. He was saying that Hamas's actions were morally justified and we should end the blockade of Gaza, which would allow even more weapons and money to get to Hamas.

Your second paragraph I agree with.

[JBS]

     Most evictees are not zealots for any cause. They probably want to be left alone and live in peace. They fear the authority that is most able to harm them more than the more distant one in Gaza. That's a practical judgment not based on moral universals.

     Palestinians fear loss of family homes as evictions loom

     Israel has these families in a chokehold. How can they "comply"?

Quite simple.
Pay rent to the actual owners of the property, who bought the legal title for those properties from the previous Jewish owners who were expelled by Jordan in 1948. This is after all a court case that's been going on for almost  50 years, a real life Jarndyce v Jarndyce.

Both sides here are being hypocrites. Israelis are denying the Right of Return to Palestinians in general but demanding it be recognized when the claimants are Jewish.  Palestinians claim living in a place for 70 years does not extinguish the rights of the previous property owners but demand that be done when the current tenants are Palestinian.

[JBS]

For Daverz' information, this remark merely recycles a trope straight out of the Protocols.

. The pro-Zionist lobby in the USA, exemplified by organizations such as the AIPAC, have nut-crushing grip on American politicians, mainly through the manipulation of campaign contributions to Congress members.

[drogulus]

Quite simple.
Pay rent to the actual owners of the property, who bought the legal title for those properties from the previous Jewish owners who were expelled by Jordan in 1948. This is after all a court case that's been going on for almost  50 years, a real life Jarndyce v Jarndyce.

Both sides here are being hypocrites. Israelis are denying the Right of Return to Palestinians in general but demanding it be recognized when the claimants are Jewish.  Palestinians claim living in a place for 70 years does not extinguish the rights of the previous property owners but demand that be done when the current tenants are Palestinian.

     I'm aware of the court case. The government could step in to protect tenants rights against the purchasers of the rights of former owners. Just compensation could be awarded to property owners and people allowed to live in their homes, or if that's not the best outcome allow people to live in the neighborhood instead of using the dispute as a way of getting rid of them.

     If the case can drag on for decades why do people have to leave now, and why always to the extreme disadvantage of one party to this "unsettled" case? Is the case settled or isn't it? Why do I get the feeling that the losers were selected in advance?

[JBS]

     I'm aware of the court case. The government could step in to protect tenants rights against the purchasers of the rights of former owners. Just compensation could be awarded to property owners and people allowed to live in their homes, or if that's not the best outcome allow people to live in the neighborhood instead of using the dispute as a way of getting rid of them.

     If the case can drag on for decades why do people have to leave now, and why always to the extreme disadvantage of one party to this "unsettled" case? Is the case settled or isn't it? Why do I get the feeling that the losers were selected in advance?

Apparently this court case is close to its end. But not quite. The Israeli Supreme Court was set to hand down a decision, but pushed it back at Bibi's request because of the riots.

The solution you suggest would be admirable, but Bibi does not have the imagination for that, and I suspect his political calculations would rule it out because he'd be criticized for giving in to Palestinian resistance.

[drogulus]

Apparently this court case is close to its end. But not quite. The Israeli Supreme Court was set to hand down a decision, but pushed it back at Bibi's request because of the riots.

The solution you suggest would be admirable, but Bibi does not have the imagination for that, and I suspect his political calculations would rule it out because he'd be criticized for giving in to Palestinian resistance.

     Supreme Court delays session on Sheikh Jarrah evictions amid Jerusalem violence

After the families asked Attorney General Avichai Mandelblit to become a party to the case, Mandelblit's office asked the Supreme Court for two weeks to consider the matter.

The court gave Mandelblit until June 8 to consider whether he will become a party to the case. The planned evictions — already approved by lower courts — will not go forward in the interim.

     OK, this suggests to me that there is some reason to think that Israel can be influenced to see the case through a broader justice and policy framework instead of in a legal framework designed for discriminatory purposes. Discrimination by law calls for a different response than unlawful discrimination. Israel can try to deny or deflect, but for a number of reasons that doesn't seem to be working as well as in the past. It's another way that smartphones and social media have shifted the ground.

[SimonNZ]

I just read the news.   

Which news do you read that has you heavily peppering you comments with "Woke left" and dragging The Squad and BLM into everything?

I'm really asking.

[milk]

Which news do you read that has you heavily peppering you comments with "Woke left" and dragging The Squad and BLM into everything?

I'm really asking.

well, I'm talking about the history of The Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the history of the Sri Lankan civil war. I'm not expert in these problems and I recognize that my contributions are very weak. Most people commenting know very little. I'm open to hearing from people who really know the details even if they strongly disagree. I've tried to be a little careful NOT to say Israel is right or Hamas is blameless. As for the race question, I believe the tweets from BLM and various supporters are out there as reported by every outlet. They see Israel as white supremacists. I think it's a stupid position to hold.
The squad and BLM are allowed to comment on anything they want. And they do. Why shouldn't I have an opinion about it? They're a big driving course in society today. No?
I try to read widely: The New York Times and various left media as well as the National Review on the right. I lean left myself. I like The Hill Rising for being somewhat non-partisan.
I do think identitarianism is destroying the left and deflecting from the real problems we face.

[greg]

I lean left myself. I like The Hill Rising for being somewhat non-partisan.

Cool. Recently have been been watching them a bit more.

[milk]

Cool. Recently have been been watching them a bit more.

they definitely throw out some interesting commentary. Sometimes it's very left but the guy is a conservative. Engeti I think is his name? The woman is a kind of Bernie-leftist and they have right-wing guests from the Washington Times too. I bet you like their constant shade on Russia-gate. Good political commentary with some UFO stuff thrown in!

[drogulus]

     

I do think identitarianism is destroying the left and deflecting from the real problems we face.

     The right thinks identitarianism is destroying America. I think most of Wokeism will end up in the fictional sub-basements of Satanic day care centers. Excuse me now as I help Jacques Derrida destabilize the dominant discourse. Run for your lives!
     

[Karl Henning]

I do think identitarianism is destroying the left and deflecting from the real problems we face.

If that is true (and I do not say absolutely otherwise) I do not see it at all in solid blue Massachusetts, where focus ends to be local and practical.

[milk]

If that is true (and I do not say absolutely otherwise) I do not see it at all in solid blue Massachusetts, where focus ends to be local and practical.

well I may have overstated it or maybe not. Maybe woke-ism just isn't addressing things but maybe it won't matter in the end. We live in a world where systems have failed us on a colossal level. The increase of wages in the poorest places from 1$ a day to 2$ is hailed as some kind of great progress in world poverty whereas huge inequality is seen really as normal. It's an obscene level of grafting from corporations and ultra-wealthy. Environmental destruction continues at alarming rates and when we pass the point of no return, we won't even know it. I do think our systems, education for one, are shockingly un-creative and that young people are handed a world that is fait accompli. Here in Japan, no one questions the order and people are basically serving institutions and bureaucracies. Maybe this woke track is just an understandable blind fumbling for some kind of answer. Good luck in Massachusetts. I think for many people in the world, things aren't looking up. I'm always in the market for a more positive outlook though.

[milk]

     
     The right thinks identitarianism is destroying America. I think most of Wokeism will end up in the fictional sub-basements of Satanic day care centers. Excuse me now as I help Jacques Derrida destabilize the dominant discourse. Run for your lives!
   

ha ha. The fact that no one can make sense of it means we can slacken our pace I guess. At best it's just a distraction then. Those right-wing loonies like Chris Rock, Billy Crystal, James Carville, and Dave Chapelle (I choose only comedians) should take a chill pill and go to Massachusetts.

[greg]

It's an obscene level of grafting from corporations and ultra-wealthy.

Oh, come on. Didn't you know that CEO's of multi-million dollar companies only ever cared about LGBT and BLM?




I'd imagine a racial narrative for the cause of class disparity would be something they prefer, rather than an economic one, as worshippers of the dollar. Even if it's not rooted in truth. Money is the only truth to them.
And it requires no actual change to the system, it's just kind words to appease the "lower class" of people so they don't ask for higher wages. Being anti-union but pro-woke at the same time, sounds genuine, right? 

[Karl Henning]

well I may have overstated it or maybe not. Maybe woke-ism just isn't addressing things but maybe it won't matter in the end. We live in a world where systems have failed us on a colossal level. The increase of wages in the poorest places from 1$ a day to 2$ is hailed as some kind of great progress in world poverty whereas huge inequality is seen really as normal. It's an obscene level of grafting from corporations and ultra-wealthy. Environmental destruction continues at alarming rates and when we pass the point of no return, we won't even know it. I do think our systems, education for one, are shockingly un-creative and that young people are handed a world that is fait accompli. Here in Japan, no one questions the order and people are basically serving institutions and bureaucracies. Maybe this woke track is just an understandable blind fumbling for some kind of answer. Good luck in Massachusetts. I think for many people in the world, things aren't looking up. I'm always in the market for a more positive outlook though.

Wish I knew how to repair the wealth imbalance in the US. Clearly it is an obscenity, but if there is an easy path to decency and fairness, it is hidden from me.

[milk]

Wish I knew how to repair the wealth imbalance in the US. Clearly it is an obscenity, but if there is an easy path to decency and fairness, it is hidden from me.

Me too!

Oh, come on. Didn't you know that CEO's of multi-million dollar companies only ever cared about LGBT and BLM?




I'd imagine a racial narrative for the cause of class disparity would be something they prefer, rather than an economic one, as worshippers of the dollar. Even if it's not rooted in truth. Money is the only truth to them.
And it requires no actual change to the system, it's just kind words to appease the "lower class" of people so they don't ask for higher wages. Being anti-union but pro-woke at the same time, sounds genuine, right? 

quite a game they're running!

[SimonNZ]

Wyoming state senator running against Cheney for House seat reveals he impregnated 14-year-old when he was 18

"A Republican Wyoming state senator who's running against US Rep. Liz Cheney for her House seat told a local newspaper he impregnated a 14-year-old girl when he was 18-years-old after he referenced the incident during a Facebook Live stream.

Anthony Bouchard told the Casper Star-Tribune newspaper on Thursday he married the girl after she turned 15 when they were both living in Florida.

He said they were able to get married at the time because under Florida law, a judge could approve the marriage if a pregnancy was involved and a parent consented. The state of Florida put a ban on child marriage into law in 2018, with some narrow exceptions for 17-year-olds.

The news came after he jumped on Facebook Live earlier Thursday to disclose this part of his life because he was made aware of a "political opposition research company" and unnamed reporter who were investigating him.

"It was a story when I was young, two teenagers, girl gets pregnant, you've heard those stories before," he said in the Facebook Live video. "She was a little younger than me, so it's like Romeo and Juliet story. A lot of pressure, pressure to abort a baby. I'm going to tell you, I wasn't going to do it."[...]


and from a different article:

"However, their "Romeo and Juliet story" ended tragically as they got divorced and Frances took her own life at the age of 20. Their son Tony Raymond Bouchard Jr, now 36, was brought up by Bouchard. The younger Bouchard is currently facing charges of sodomy by use of force, forcible oral copulation, sexual penetration by a foreign object, force and violence, and false imprisonment by violence on a 51-year-old female victim. He will be tried at the Tulare County Superior Court later this year."