Sir Arnold Bax

[Mirror Image]

This may be a loaded question, but what symphony cycle do you guys feel hits all the right spots in terms of interpretation and overall performance? Handley? Thomson? Lloyd-Jones? An assortment of various performances?

[vandermolen]

This may be a loaded question, but what symphony cycle do you guys feel hits all the right spots in terms of interpretation and overall performance? Handley? Thomson? Lloyd-Jones? An assortment of various performances?

As a cycle Thomson on Chandos but individually

1: Fredman (Lyrita)
2: Fredman (Lyrita)
3: Downes (RCA LP)
4: Thomson (Chandos) I also like the earlier Handley recording (Concert Artists CD)
5: Leppard (Lyrita)
6: Lloyd Jones (Naxos)
7: Leppard (Lyrita)

I know you only asked about symphonies John but I'd supplement them with his marvellous disc of the tone poems:

[Roasted Swan]

As a cycle Thomson on Chandos but individually

1: Fredman (Lyrita)
2: Fredman (Lyrita)
3: Downes (RCA LP)
4: Thomson (Chandos) I also like the earlier Handley recording (Concert Artists CD)
5: Leppard (Lyrita)
6: Lloyd Jones (Naxos)
7: Leppard (Lyrita)

I know you only asked about symphonies John but I'd supplement them with his marvellous disc of the tone poems:

I would second Vandermolen's list with 2 caveats; My only memory of Downes' No.3 was on a poor RCA Gold Label pressing which robbed the performance of any kind of energy - so I'm not saying no but I haven't heard it in literally decades.  I would sub. in Handley for No.3 & No.6 and definitely keep Thomson for No.4.  The 'old' Handley recording is too sonically compromised for me and features a comedy electronic organ which is awful!

The tone-poems disc that Vandermolen mentions is excellent.  I have now heard the "Studio Master" download version of the Boult/Lyrita disc and it sounds marginally cleaner than the CD and I found I responded more to Boult's rather majestic approach more than at other times (his Northern Ballad No.1 is very good) but I still find he misses the febrile in Bax.

[vandermolen]

I would second Vandermolen's list with 2 caveats; My only memory of Downes' No.3 was on a poor RCA Gold Label pressing which robbed the performance of any kind of energy - so I'm not saying no but I haven't heard it in literally decades.  I would sub. in Handley for No.3 & No.6 and definitely keep Thomson for No.4.  The 'old' Handley recording is too sonically compromised for me and features a comedy electronic organ which is awful!

The tone-poems disc that Vandermolen mentions is excellent.  I have now heard the "Studio Master" download version of the Boult/Lyrita disc and it sounds marginally cleaner than the CD and I found I responded more to Boult's rather majestic approach more than at other times (his Northern Ballad No.1 is very good) but I still find he misses the febrile in Bax.

Very interesting RS and encourages me to listen to the Handley 3 and 6 again. Maybe I have been too dismissive of his Bax cycle on Chandos. There's something about the atmosphere of Handley's Guildford recording of Symphony No.4 which appeals to me although I take your point about the 'comedy organ' (wasn't that the same case with the Dutton recording of the premiere of Bliss's 'The Beatitudes' as well?) The Guildford Symphony No.4 on LP was also my first contact with the work as was the Downes recording of Symphony 3 but that was the original RCA LP release and not the one on 'Gold Seal'. I played that LP a zillion times at the University Library (listening on headphones) in my student days - it had a huge influence on me and was the first Bax symphony I heard as far as I remember. Recently I bought the Goossens recording of Symphony 2 on Lyrita (originally on Dutton) but haven't had time to listen to it properly yet:

[Roasted Swan]

Very interesting RS and encourages me to listen to the Handley 3 and 6 again. Maybe I have been too dismissive of his Bax cycle on Chandos. There's something about the atmosphere of Handley's Guildford recording of Symphony No.4 which appeals to me although I take your point about the 'comedy organ' (wasn't that the same case with the Dutton recording of the premiere of Bliss's 'The Beatitudes' as well?) The Guildford Symphony No.4 on LP was also my first contact with the work as was the Downes recording of Symphony 3 but that was the original RCA LP release and not the one on 'Gold Seal'. I played that LP a zillion times at the University Library (listening on headphones) in my student days - it had a huge influence on me and was the first Bax symphony I heard as far as I remember. Recently I bought the Goossens recording of Symphony 2 on Lyrita (originally on Dutton) but haven't had time to listen to it properly yet:

You are exactly right about the organ at the premiere of the Beatitudes!  Bliss wrote a major part for the organ assuming it would be the mighty new instrument in Coventry Cathedral - instead, when the premiere was moved to a cinema(!) all he got was a weedy electronic one.  Did you see my link to the article about Bax 3?  Very interesting and well worth a read.  Basically I agree with you about the Handley cycle - perhaps we were all hoping for something overwhelmingly definitive.........

this is the version of the Downes Bax I knew....



generally these RCA reissues could be quite poor whether as pressings/the vinyl used or some kind of blunting of the musical impact.  The Kempe/RPO/Alpine Symphony was another case in point.  Now on CD it sounds superb but the Gold Seal was more of a case of meh.......!

A PS:  if you admire Downes in Bax I'm sure you must know this......



the Northern Ballads especially good - and an excellent Bantock Pagan Symphony thrown in for good measure - I remember hearing this when originally broadcast....

[vandermolen]

You are exactly right about the organ at the premiere of the Beatitudes!  Bliss wrote a major part for the organ assuming it would be the mighty new instrument in Coventry Cathedral - instead, when the premiere was moved to a cinema(!) all he got was a weedy electronic one.  Did you see my link to the article about Bax 3?  Very interesting and well worth a read.  Basically I agree with you about the Handley cycle - perhaps we were all hoping for something overwhelmingly definitive.........

this is the version of the Downes Bax I knew....



generally these RCA reissues could be quite poor whether as pressings/the vinyl used or some kind of blunting of the musical impact.  The Kempe/RPO/Alpine Symphony was another case in point.  Now on CD it sounds superb but the Gold Seal was more of a case of meh.......!

A PS:  if you admire Downes in Bax I'm sure you must know this......



the Northern Ballads especially good - and an excellent Bantock Pagan Symphony thrown in for good measure - I remember hearing this when originally broadcast....

I must look back for the link. Although the university library had the RCA Red Seal recording of Bax's Third Symphony the only one then available to buy (c.1976/77) was the Gold Seal one which you have. That was, unfortunately, its last appearance in any format.
Yes, I do have that fine BBC Radio Classics CD.

[Irons]

You are exactly right about the organ at the premiere of the Beatitudes!  Bliss wrote a major part for the organ assuming it would be the mighty new instrument in Coventry Cathedral - instead, when the premiere was moved to a cinema(!) all he got was a weedy electronic one.  Did you see my link to the article about Bax 3?  Very interesting and well worth a read.  Basically I agree with you about the Handley cycle - perhaps we were all hoping for something overwhelmingly definitive.........

this is the version of the Downes Bax I knew....



generally these RCA reissues could be quite poor whether as pressings/the vinyl used or some kind of blunting of the musical impact.  The Kempe/RPO/Alpine Symphony was another case in point.  Now on CD it sounds superb but the Gold Seal was more of a case of meh.......!

A PS:  if you admire Downes in Bax I'm sure you must know this......



the Northern Ballads especially good - and an excellent Bantock Pagan Symphony thrown in for good measure - I remember hearing this when originally broadcast....

Oh the joys of vinyl! The issue featured by RS is an Italian pressing and they are uniformly horrible. The RCA from Jeffrey with different cover is a UK pressing which is a different kettle of fish. Since Jeffrey's recommendation I have looked out for a decent pressing without success so far but one will turn up, they always do.   

[Mirror Image]

Thanks for the feedback, Jeffrey and Roasted Swan. I might have to get out the Thomson cycle and give it another listen. I own A LOT of Bax recordings as there was a time where I kind of understood his music better than I do now.

[aukhawk]

I read that article linked upthread and enjoyed it - thanks.
Immedietely after, I listened to the 3rd Symphony (Thomson) but I couldn't really find any correlation between the music and what the article was telling me.  I found the music (which I don't know as well as I do Nos. 1, 2 and 5) diffuse and rhapsodic, and reminiscent of Delius in many places.  Henry Wood must have lit a fire under this music to make it into a Proms favourite for over a decade.

[vandermolen]

Oh the joys of vinyl! The issue featured by RS is an Italian pressing and they are uniformly horrible. The RCA from Jeffrey with different cover is a UK pressing which is a different kettle of fish. Since Jeffrey's recommendation I have looked out for a decent pressing without success so far but one will turn up, they always do.

Lol, the discogs website features quite a few for sale. The picture showing is of the Red Seal release but I guess it's worth checking that they are not selling the Gold Seal release. I recently got hold of a copy of the Red Seal LP. Now, all I need is a record player to play it!

There's also this fine historical performance:

[Irons]

Lol, the discogs website features quite a few for sale. The picture showing is of the Red Seal release but I guess it's worth checking that they are not selling the Gold Seal release. I recently got hold of a copy of the Red Seal LP. Now, all I need is a record player to play it!

There's also this fine historical performance:

I picked up a copy of Downes Bax 3 on Red Seal on my last visit to Classical Exchange, Jeffrey after reading your post but after cleaning a noisy pressing. This is par for the course collecting vinyl, I reject as many as I keep. I will locate a pressing that does justice to the music.

The Bax violin concerto intrigues me even though I have heard negative reports concerning the work.

[vandermolen]

I picked up a copy of Downes Bax 3 on Red Seal on my last visit to Classical Exchange, Jeffrey after reading your post but after cleaning a noisy pressing. This is par for the course collecting vinyl, I reject as many as I keep. I will locate a pressing that does justice to the music.

The Bax violin concerto intrigues me even though I have heard negative reports concerning the work.

Oh, I hope you find a clean copy Lol. Mine looks in good condition but I haven't playet it yet. I don't think much of Bax's Violin Concerto.

[vandermolen]

I bought this ages ago but have only just got round to listening to it. It is a great performance IMO. Goossens gave the UK premiere of the symphony (May 1930) although the world premiere was given by Koussevitsky in Boston in December 1929 (I'm sure that Karl will approve!):

Here's a review of the CD:
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2017/Nov/Bax_sy2_REAM1137.htm

[Daverz]

For those who like a bit of nostalgia while they listen, here's a video of a Lyrita LP playing on what looks like a rebuilt Gerrard 301:

https://www.youtube.com/v/F7iLxLO8KVU

There are also links to the Bax Symphonies 1, 2 & 5.

I was never able to find such clean copies of these LPs.  I usually had better luck with the HNH or MHS issues.

[vandermolen]

For those who like a bit of nostalgia while they listen, here's a video of a Lyrita LP playing on what looks like a rebuilt Gerrard 301:

https://www.youtube.com/v/F7iLxLO8KVU

There are also links to the Bax Symphonies 1, 2 & 5.

I was never able to find such clean copies of these LPs.  I usually had better luck with the HNH or MHS issues.

A great nostalgia trip although the turntable looks more up-market than any one I ever possessed. Thanks for posting this.

[vers la flamme]

Bax's music has actually been hitting the spot lately, after an initial period of not understanding his music much. I have only one disc solely dedicated to his works: Symphony No.1 plus In the Faery Hills & the Garden of Fand on Naxos w/ David Lloyd-Jones; and then I also have On the Sea-shore on a disc w/ Vernon Handley and the Ulster Orchestra. I've been listening to this small collection quite a good bit and I'm feeling like branching out and hearing more.

Are there any symphonies in Bax's cycle that are widely considered to be highlights? There's a local record store that I know has a bunch of the Lloyd-Jones Bax discs for cheap, so I'll likely swing by and pick up one or two of those sometime during the week. But I'm not altogether committed to completing the Naxos cycle if there are other recordings that are better.

Of the works I mentioned I think I like Symphony No.1 the best. It has some great part writing for brass and strings (including the harp) and some rather interesting tension and forward momentum. Interestingly, all four of these works are very much different from one another despite some unifying links w/r/t the orchestration, harmony etc. Arnold Bax appears to have been an interesting composer, and one worth exploring.

Anyway, who's listening to Bax these days?

[Symphonic Addict]

In spite of some of his music suffers from 'diffuseness', Bax is one of my favorite English symphonists. As highlights in his symphonies I would go with the 1st, 3rd (with a lovely and utterly inspiring ending), 5th and 6th. That Naxos cycle is pretty good, vers la flamme, so are the two cycles on Chandos under Handley and Thomson. Lyrita has some of them, but it's not complete AFAIK. You might like his several tone poems, which share elements found on the symphonies (Tintagel, November Woods, Nympholept, Northern Ballads, etc.)

[Roasted Swan]

In spite of some of his music suffers from 'diffuseness', Bax is one of my favorite English symphonists. As highlights in his symphonies I would go with the 1st, 3rd (with a lovely and utterly inspiring ending), 5th and 6th. That Naxos cycle is pretty good, vers la flamme, so are the two cycles on Chandos under Handley and Thomson. Lyrita has some of them, but it's not complete AFAIK. You might like his several tone poems, which share elements found on the symphonies (Tintagel, November Woods, Nympholept, Northern Ballads, etc.)

First Choices for each symphony;

No.1 - Fredman/LPO/Lyrita
No.2 - Fredman/LPO/Lyrita
No.3 - Thomson/LPO/Chandos (or Downes/LSO - never been released on CD but can be heard on YouTube in a good LP transfer)
No.4 - Thomson/Ulster Orch/Chandos
No.5 - Leppard/LPO/Lyrita
No.6 - Handley/ BBC PO/Chandos
No.7 - Leppard/LPO/Lyrita

The Naxos cycle is a competent read/record set with varying sonics.  The Lyrita recordings still sound astonishingly fine for being nearly 50 years old - a technical and musical triumph - also Nos 1&7 and 2&5 are coupled so only 2 discs required to buy so excellentvalue.  One of these days, Vandermolen will get his way and the Downes No.3 WILL be re-released on CD!!

[vers la flamme]

Thanks much, boys. I will check out 3, 5 & 6, and probably stick w/ Naxos for now. I've never bought a Lyrita recording. I'm sure there are gems in that catalogue, but they can be quite expensive per individual volume.

[Maestro267]

Personally I favour the even-numbered symphonies over the odd.