Europe at War

[Gurn Blanston]

More balderdash.

It may be balderdash in your sense of things, but anyone who doesn't know the characters involved and just reading the posts would have to believe she was correct in her assertion, even though you didn't overtly say that.

Note to all:
We are a big tent here, with room for a variety of beliefs. If anyone's belief is not congruent with yours, either challenge it if you can prove it wrong, or ignore it if you can't. We won't be starting a war of our own here. This is a 'no-fly' zone. 

GB 

[Mandryka]

https://www.youtube.com/v/If61baWF4GE

Video about the context.

[MusicTurner]

Regarding Donbass, the UN estimates that 3400 fatalities were civilians (until October, on both sides). Not 14000.

The rest were soldiers and militants.

Girkin, the initial leader of the Russian invasion groups in Crimea and Donbass, later said that without his groups, the total number of fatalities in Donbass would only have been a handful, and the fighting would have died out quickly. After some time there, he had wanted a complete, bigger and regular military invasion, like at the Debaltseve battle, but grabbing more land.

[Spotted Horses]

Yes, anyone who disagrees with you politically does not deserve to live, point taken.

Perhaps may be allowed to live, but does not deserve to be treated with even a minimum level of civility or common courtesy. The same goes for someone that likes music he doesn't like.

[Todd]

Yes.

Anything with a sub-headline "The United States and its allies have no choice but to consider escalation" should perhaps be read with a skeptical eye.  Florid language, including "entropy" raises an eyebrow as well.

One not entirely unexpected outcome of the sensationalized coverage of this war is that one gets to witness some racist/eurocentric coverage.  Charlie D'Agata seems to have set the standard for now.  Let's see if anyone beats him.

[Rinaldo]

Sibelius has entered the chat:

Finnish protesters singing Finlandia at Russian embassy in Helsinki

[Herman]

Russia Must Lose

This is a familiar style of writing / speaking.

Some guy who spends his life safely in a well-stocked study has come to the conclusion that the fight must be fought till the very end  -  no matter how much destruction and death this entails. He'll just write another churchillean piece of bleh about it.

[Florestan]

Some guy who spends his life safely in a well-stocked study has come to the conclusion that the fight must be fought till the very end  -  no matter how much destruction and death this entails.

You're right. It's not Putin's and Lavrov's direct threats that are nuts and dangerous, it's an obscure article on an obscure website.

[Karl Henning]

This is a familiar style of writing / speaking.

Some guy who spends his life safely in a well-stocked study has come to the conclusion that the fight must be fought till the very end  -  no matter how much destruction and death this entails. He'll just write another churchillean piece of bleh about it.

You'll forgive my saying they this sounds like a reaction to the headline without regard for the piece itself.

[Karl Henning]

You'll forgive my saying they this sounds like a reaction to the headline without regard for the piece itself.

And of course, Russian soldiers are where they are thanks in no small measure to years of letting Putin bully whom he would without consequences.

[Herman]

You'll forgive my saying they this sounds like a reaction to the headline without regard for the piece itself.

So you want me to read past "let's escalate this baby"?

The thing is the word combo Putin + Lose doesn't do it for me either.

Lives Saved, War Ended, much more.

[Herman]

Well, Rohac's (the author of the Putin Must Lose-piece) idea that the NATO enter into a shooting war with Russia in Ukraine could result in bombs on Berlin, Paris or Brussels, as retaliation.

His suggestion that the west should engage in cyberwar seems to assume that this isn't happening yet. I'm not so sure about this.

[Todd]

Looks like there might be a way regular people can help Ukraine: Ukraine raises $270 million from sale of war bonds to fund army as Russia's invasion continues

Anyone here ready to buy with the next flotation?

[Florestan]

And of course, Russian soldiers are where they are thanks in no small measure to years of letting Putin bully whom he would without consequences.

+ 1.

[Gurn Blanston]

Well, Rohac's (the author of the Putin Must Lose-piece) idea that the NATO enter into a shooting war with Russia in Ukraine could result in bombs on Berlin, Paris or Brussels, as retaliation.

His suggestion that the west should engage in cyberwar seems to assume that this isn't happening yet. I'm not so sure about this.

Agreed. This is the ultimate last resort scenario.

Cyberwar? Count on it. It seems to me that anyone who doesn't think so hasn't been paying attention the last 20 years. As much as USA bitches and whines about other countries hacking us (or trying anyway), fact is, we are as good as it gets at that, and doubtless unafraid to use that skill.

Do drones count as an act of war? Asking for a friend...

[drogulus]

     I think we can and should continue the pretense that Putin is not at war with everyone he is at war with, while continuing to provide support for Ukraine. One understands how difficult it is to thread this needlle.

     I hear the gears turning in NATO heads. How far can we go? What level of support?

Do drones count as an act of war? Asking for a friend...

     Erdogan is your friend maybe? Yes, these are the gears that turn. Me, I have visions of those notorious MIG-29s somehow falling off supersized trucks just across the border, where dirty Uke thieves with pilots licenses pounce on them.

[Todd]

Do drones count as an act of war?

The more pressing question is whether a No Fly Zone constitutes an act of war.

[Rinaldo]

This is all over the Czech media and the European twitterverse. Supposedly it's Lavrov being quoted by the Russian news agency RIA Novosti.

"I do not exclude the possibility that someone wanted Russia to get stuck in Ukraine through an artificial conflict created by the West."

He also said they're ready to talk ceasefire.

[The new erato]

If true, sounds like they are looking for a way out.

[drogulus]

     I think this war is better without acts of war. Sleepy Joe agrees. Now, carry on.

If true, sounds like they are looking for a way out.

     Lavrov is too important to suffer so much.