Europe at War

[Madiel]

Well, then you will be greatly surprised to find out that Alexander Dugin, the official ideologue of Putinism, has been for years making the case for a Eurasian Union, extending from Lisbon to Vladivostok, completely anti-NATO and anti-US and under Russian hegemony, of course. 

Plus, many if not most of the soldiers currently operating in Ukraine come from beyond the Urals and have distinctly Asian physiognomy.

Napoleon was quite right: Scratch a Russian and you'll find a Tartar. 

Getting soldiers from a different part of the empire was a Roman tactic. But the soldiers weren't Romans.

[Todd]

Russia does have borders with NATO countries other than the Baltic States and Poland, but they're not in Europe and usually not thought of as borders: Canada (Arctic Ocean), USA (Bering Sea and Strait), Turkey (Black Sea).

Mongolia is a global partner of NATO.  And of course Japan has a robust treaty with the US, along with territorial disputes with Russia.

[MusicTurner]

Actually, concerning the basic Europeanness of Russia, another one of the reveries by some current regime adherents, cf. their growing anti-Westerness and opposition to Western values and influences, is that of moving Russia's focus and connections much more towards Asia, and away from Europe. This would include Moscow as the capital being replaced by a city in Siberia. Shoigu is allegedly among those who are keen on such an idea.

[Florestan]

Russia does have borders with NATO countries other than the Baltic States and Poland, but they're not in Europe and usually not thought of as borders: Canada (Arctic Ocean), USA (Bering Sea and Strait), Turkey (Black Sea).

Russia proper (excluding Kaliningrad) has terrestrial borders with exactly three NATO countries: Latvia, Estonia and Norway. The claim that they are surrounded by NATO is paranoid.

[Todd]

Pope says NATO may have caused Russia's invasion of Ukraine

Phrase of the day: "NATO's barking at Russia's door".

[Florestan]

Pope Francis is a pinko and a fool and misses no opportunity to prove it.

The Holy See has been asking since mid-March for a meeting between Francis and Putin in Moscow, the pope said. "Of course we needed the leader of the Kremlin to allocate a window of time. We haven't yet had any response, and we are still trying, even if I fear that Putin can't and doesn't want to have this meeting at this time."

What a moron.

[Harry]

Pope Francis is a pinko and a fool and misses no opportunity to prove it.

The Holy See has been asking since mid-March for a meeting between Francis and Putin in Moscow, the pope said. "Of course we needed the leader of the Kremlin to allocate a window of time. We haven't yet had any response, and we are still trying, even if I fear that Putin can't and doesn't want to have this meeting at this time."

What a moron.

Agreed, he is a fool.

[Madiel]

Not agreed.

[Florestan]

By now, Pope Francis should have already met Zelensky in Kyiv, held the Mass in the Roman Catholic St. Alexander Cathedral and then should have gone to Lviv (the capital of a province where Roman Catholics are majoritarian) and also hold a Mass there. But no, he's too busy slavishly begging fro Putin's attention and persevering despite receiving nothing but a disdainful silence from him. His behaviour is shameful.

[Harry]

By now, Pope Francis should have already met Zelensky in Kyiv, held the Mass in the Roman Catholic St. Alexander Cathedral and then should have gone to Lviv (the capital of a province where Roman Catholics are majoritarian) and also hold a Mass there. But no, he's too busy slavishly begging fro Putin's attention and persevering despite receiving nothing but a disdainful silence from him. His behaviour is shameful.

Again agreed!

[drogulus]

     Here's a realistic assessment of the combat losses for both Russia and Ukraine provided by my favorite sock puppet.

     https://www.youtube.com/v/Mt3Sua-fZH4

[Florestan]

Again agreed!

His insistence on meeting Putin is extremely foolish because he knows very well, or ought to know very well, that it's actually impossible: (1) for him to go to Russia he'll have to have the consent of Kiril and it's hard to believe the latter will give it and (2) it's highly unlikely that Putin will leave Russia to meet Pope Francis somewhere in the world.

[krummholz]

Pope Francis is a pinko and a fool and misses no opportunity to prove it.

The Holy See has been asking since mid-March for a meeting between Francis and Putin in Moscow, the pope said. "Of course we needed the leader of the Kremlin to allocate a window of time. We haven't yet had any response, and we are still trying, even if I fear that Putin can't and doesn't want to have this meeting at this time."

What a moron.

Full disclosure: I was baptised Roman Catholic but have not practised the (or any organised) religion in nearly 50 years. But I think Francis is cannier than that: I note that the article says that "while he [Francis] might not go as far as saying NATO's presence in nearby countries 'provoked' Moscow, it 'perhaps facilitated' the invasion." "Facilitated" is a well-chosen word in my opinion: it gave Putin an argument, an excuse, to justify the unjustifiable.

And it sounds as if he's been in communication with Kirill and no doubt is well aware that he would need Kirill's consent to travel to Moscow.

[Madiel]

By now, Pope Francis should have already met Zelensky in Kyiv, held the Mass in the Roman Catholic St. Alexander Cathedral and then should have gone to Lviv (the capital of a province where Roman Catholics are majoritarian) and also hold a Mass there. But no, he's too busy slavishly begging fro Putin's attention and persevering despite receiving nothing but a disdainful silence from him. His behaviour is shameful.

He's trying to hold talks, not masses. The functions are different.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Pope Francis is a pinko and a fool and misses no opportunity to prove it.

The Holy See has been asking since mid-March for a meeting between Francis and Putin in Moscow, the pope said. "Of course we needed the leader of the Kremlin to allocate a window of time. We haven't yet had any response, and we are still trying, even if I fear that Putin can't and doesn't want to have this meeting at this time."

What a moron.

Agreed, he is a fool.

While western nations respond to Putin with hardcore retaliation, its purpose is not to hurt Putin or destroy Russia. Its purpose is to influence Putin and make him decide to withdraw from Ukraine. For this purpose, it is more effective that some parties like Macron and Pope maintain channel with Kremlin. It is persuasion and communication, rather than appeasement. A massive retaliation with total lack of communication won't get anything the West wants from Putin. Though I am a non-believer and I don't care Vatican, I have seen the knowledge and sincerity of this pope for years.

[Todd]

Its purpose is to influence Putin and make him decide to withdraw from Ukraine.

This is factually inaccurate.  The Biden administration has been unusually forthright in stating one of its goals:

We want to see Russia weakened.

This was immediately seized upon by more aggressive foreign policy analysts - eg, Yes, the United States Should Weaken Russia.

The war is about more than just having Russia withdraw from Ukraine.  One can read the official White House joint statement from 9/1/21 called 'Joint Statement on the U.S.-Ukraine Strategic Partnership' to get a sense of what policy is, and why Biden's suggestion that he would be open to Ukrainian neutrality may sound hollow to others. 

[drogulus]

     What a scandal it is when the aggressor is not only defeated, but weakened!

[drogulus]

     By the way, is it "Europe at War" yet?

[Madiel]

     By the way, is it "Europe at War" yet?

If it is, this might mean the Pope isn't in Europe, which I imagine might surprise him.

[Florestan]

to influence Putin and make him decide to withdraw from Ukraine.

If Pope Francis really thinks he can do that, then it only proves my point: he's a fool.

I have seen the knowledge and sincerity of this pope for years.

Sure, he's probably sincere in his pinko beliefs and his friendly attitude to various authoritarian leftist leaders. Other than that, he's as sincere as a Jesuit can be.

Look, he visited Romania a few years ago and I quite liked him then for his humility and kindness (provided they were sincere, see above) --- but I strongly dislike the general tone of his papacy.