Europe at War

[Todd]

There's no such thing as NATO expansion, there are only soverein states preferring a membership.

Incorrect.  There have been several NATO expansions, the first in 1952.

[Christo]

expansion of NATO. 

There's no such thing as NATO expansion, there are only sovereign states preferring a membership.

[Todd]

There's no such thing as NATO expansion, there are only sovereign states preferring a membership.

Incorrect.  There have been several NATO expansions, the first in 1952.

[Florestan]

Gentlemen, please, stop feeding the troll!

[Gurn Blanston]

Why do I suspect that this is one of those semantic issues which could be easily resolved by people of good will? 

[Florestan]

Why do I suspect that this is one of those semantic issues which could be easily resolved by people of good will? 

All but one here.

[Todd]

All but one here.

Demonstrably incorrect.

[Gurn Blanston]

Demonstrably incorrect.

I agree.  Moving on...

[Todd]

From Yahoo, of all sources: U.S. weapons sales in Europe are booming as Russia's war in Ukraine continues to rage

In many European countries over half of recent military expenditures went to American arms manufacturers, with Norway devoting 83% to U.S. purchases, the U.K. 77%, Italy 72% and the Netherlands spending 95% on American-made weapons in the period from 2017 to 2021, according to Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI)...

On the other hand, countries appear to be buying without an integrated approach to European security. "So it's possible that this new surge of sales might not increase Europe's defense capability in an effective way," Hartung said...

[Mandryka]

I can smell light at the end of the tunnel

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/06/us-says-zelenskiy-risks-allies-ukraine-fatigue-if-he-rejects-russia-talks-report

[Que]

I can smell light at the end of the tunnel

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/06/us-says-zelenskiy-risks-allies-ukraine-fatigue-if-he-rejects-russia-talks-report

It's a question of making the right appearance to maintain international support. Nothing is going to happen until Putin is willing to back down.

[Mandryka]

It's a question of making the right appearance to maintain international support. Nothing is going to happen until Putin is willing to back down.

Well there's 50 of shades of "back down"

[71 dB]

Well there's 50 of shades of "back down"

The darkest of them is "black down."

[Todd]

Well there's 50 of shades of "back down"

The US must be willing to push for negotiations.  Ukraine cannot withstand pressure from the US to do so.  Such pressure will hopefully be more forthcoming after next Tuesday.  If not, a lot more Ukrainians will die needlessly and many Europeans will suffer a chilly winter. 

[Que]

There has been little information, and much confusion, about Kherson.

The image that is now emerging is that Putin has been trying to beat the Ukrainians at their own game, by setting a trap behind a smoke screen of misinformation. Part of that smoke screen was the much advertised "evacuation", mainly of civilians. In reality Putin let the (remainder of) his best (professional) troops dig in Kherson city in abandoned houses, preparing for urban warfare. Meanwhile throwing in the freshly mobilized "troops" at the frontline as canon fodder, stalling the Ukrainians as long as possible and luring them towards the city.

I'm curious how this will play out in the coming weeks. Putin doesn't seem to have fooled the Ukrainians, who are advancing very cautiously and have knokec out water and electricity.
They might bypass Kherdon city altogether and cut off Russian forces by capturing the Khakovka Dam. By now the Ukrainians have gained artillery superiority. Putin's troops in Kherson city might find themselves in a difficult position.

[Todd]

Ukraine war: Kyiv Mayor Klitschko warns of evacuations if power lost

[drogulus]

     The US and Russia are talking about, you know, things. Russia has demands, which amount to a rescue plan that allows Russia to kind of slightly win the war. I surmise that at an earlier stage when it looked impossible for the Ukes to evict the squatters the US might accept something like the 2014 lines. The Ukes themselves say they are willing to talk, and their terms will be acceptable to the US. I fear the stumbling block is Putin isn't dead and his replacement will be trapped by the same logic of defeat as Putin is.

     Where are the Bolsheviks when you need them? Will someone fetch me a peacemonger where it actually matters?

[Todd]

Kherson: Russia to withdraw troops from key Ukrainian city

Sean Penn Gives His Oscar to Zelensky During Kyiv Visit

A good day for Ukraine.

[drogulus]

     Meanwhile in Poland Russian opposition figures are discussing the option of retiring Putin with extreme prejudice. In addition to the obligatory bang bang, there might also be boom boom, because it's not one person who must go, it's also Prigozhin and his Wagnerians. And you have Kadyrov and his army to deal with.

     Maybe these guys are just a bunch of fantasists and nothing will come of it.

     Talking about fantasy, the Russians are building fortifications on the Russian side of the Ukraine border near Belgorod. As if!!!

[Madiel]

Let them build a wall there if they promise to stay on one side of it...