Everyone fires Valery Gergiev

[Mirror Image]

I agree with you and Florestan on the matter.  It is unfortunate that civilians in Russia suffer from the sanctions as well as civilians losing their lives and homes.  Such is war.

Hopefully, it'll be over soon.

[joachim]

Over the past month or so I've seen the Nashville Symphony perform Shostakovich's 5th and 1812 Overture, both times the music director, Giancarlo Guerrero, spoke to the audience and explained why after discussions they decided to not replace these with non-Russian composer works. Guerrero mentioned a bit of history for each work but wanted to put more focus on the music rather than a meaning.

I have also read that Western orchestras are considering removing Russian composers from their concerts. I find this stupid! Tchaikovsky, Shostakovich and other Russian composers have nothing to do with the current situation.

[The new erato]

I have also read that Western orchestras are considering removing Russian composers from their concerts. I find this stupid! Tchaikovsky, Shostakovich and other Russian composers have nothing to do with the current situation.

+1

[Spotted Horses]

I have also read that Western orchestras are considering removing Russian composers from their concerts. I find this stupid! Tchaikovsky, Shostakovich and other Russian composers have nothing to do with the current situation.

I wouldn't be so quick to criticize orchestra management. They have to keep their orchestras afloat financially, and if people are just not in the mood to listen to listen to Russian music at this point, they have to adapt.

[Todd]

I wouldn't be so quick to criticize orchestra management. They have to keep their orchestras afloat financially, and if people are just not in the mood to listen to listen to Russian music at this point, they have to adapt.

Money > Artistic integrity

[Mirror Image]

I wouldn't be so quick to criticize orchestra management. They have to keep their orchestras afloat financially, and if people are just not in the mood to listen to listen to Russian music at this point, they have to adapt.

And the fact that people wouldn't be in the mood for Russian music just because of the murderer Putin, shows a great ignorance on their part. The United States has done a lot of fucking stupid things throughout its history (esp. during the Bush presidencies), but this doesn't deter me from listening to Ives or Copland.

[MusicTurner]

Donating his salary for an evening concert in Vienna, Sokolov, now living in Italy, is touring a lot these days; already in mid-March, he started giving money to a German-Red Cross help project for Ukrainian victims of war, "Nachbar in Not / Neighbour in suffering", as announced at the beginning of that Vienna concert.

https://www.wienerzeitung.at/nachrichten/kultur/klassik/2140693-Neues-vom-Weltmeister.html (in German)

Kissin called the invasion a war crime early on, and Putin has qualified for a Nuremberg trial.
Decades ago, Kissin seemed very introvert and fixated only on music; this statement shows something quite different from him.

https://slippedisc.com/2022/02/evgeny-kissin-putins-invasion-is-a-crime-for-which-there-can-be-no-excuse/

[MusicTurner]

I wouldn't be so quick to criticize orchestra management. They have to keep their orchestras afloat financially, and if people are just not in the mood to listen to listen to Russian music at this point, they have to adapt.

The Swiss Verbier 2022 Festival (where Gergiev was fired and replaced by Noseda) goes the opposite way, changing the original opening concert program with Gergiev (Shostakovich 1st Symphony, Bartok 2nd Concerto and a Shedrin piece):

"While we condemn both the actions of the Russian government and those who support them, we will not turn our backs on Russian musicians nor the great tradition of Russian music. Our festival was built on the value of inclusion. It's in our DNA to bring people together during this difficult time.".

In stead, at that concert, Noseda will now conduct Shostakovich's troubled 4th Symphony; and Shchedrin's 2nd Piano Concerto is played by the Ukrainian pianist Fedorova.

https://www.verbierfestival.com/en/media-release-2022-03-16/
https://www.verbierfestival.com/en/show/mainstage-2022-07-15-1900/

original programme for the festival:
https://verbierfestival.sharepoint.com/VFData/Forms/AllItems.aspx?id=%2FVFData%2FCommunications%20et%20Marketing%2F2022%2FPre%2Dprogramme%2FFinal%2F2021%2012%2008%20Pre%2Dprogramme%20%2D%20Web%2Epdf&parent=%2FVFData%2FCommunications%20et%20Marketing%2F2022%2FPre%2Dprogramme%2FFinal&p=true&ga=1

[Spotted Horses]

The Swiss Verbier 2022 Festival (where Gergiev was fired and replaced by Noseda) goes the opposite way, changing the original opening concert program with Gergiev (Shostakovich 1st Symphony, Bartok 2nd Concerto and a Shedrin piece):

"While we condemn both the actions of the Russian government and those who support them, we will not turn our backs on Russian musicians nor the great tradition of Russian music. Our festival was built on the value of inclusion. It's in our DNA to bring people together during this difficult time.".

In stead, at that concert, Noseda will now conduct Shostakovich's troubled 4th Symphony; and Shchedrin's 2nd Piano Concerto is played by the Ukrainian pianist Fedorova.

https://www.verbierfestival.com/en/media-release-2022-03-16/
https://www.verbierfestival.com/en/show/mainstage-2022-07-15-1900/

original programme for the festival:
https://verbierfestival.sharepoint.com/VFData/Forms/AllItems.aspx?id=%2FVFData%2FCommunications%20et%20Marketing%2F2022%2FPre%2Dprogramme%2FFinal%2F2021%2012%2008%20Pre%2Dprogramme%20%2D%20Web%2Epdf&parent=%2FVFData%2FCommunications%20et%20Marketing%2F2022%2FPre%2Dprogramme%2FFinal&p=true&ga=1

That is a more just response to the situation. I trust the management of the Verbier Festival knows their audience and this leads to enhanced success.

[MusicTurner]

"Police raid an antiwar concert at a Moscow cultural center, disrupting a performance by pianist Alexei Lubimov (Lyubimov). But he still managed to finish his last tune."

https://twitter.com/KevinRothrock/status/1514317529904209929

Schubert as a defiant moment, surrounded by policemen - a grotesque situation.

Reports so far tell of the arrest because either a piece by Silvestrov being played (who is a friend of Lubimov), or at an earlier concert in March with Lubimov, an anti-war poem was recited. Or there was a sabotage message about a possible bomb at the place. Still need more confirmed details, though. Obviously, the public there is protesting about the police interference. Lubimov is 77.

https://444.hu/2022/04/13/rendorok-allitottak-le-egy-ukran-zeneszerzo-elott-tisztelgo-zongorakoncertet-moszkvaban

[MusicTurner]

It turns out that Gergiev has earned very, very well, and his properties in Italy alone are worth more than 100 million Euros, as researched by the Navalny group.

There's a villa close to Rome with 18 rooms and a pool; a coastal ground near Naples; a large compound near Rimini; and several houses/grounds near Milan. Plus the impressive 16th-century Palazzo Barbarigo at the Canale Grande in Venice, which he inherited under some peculiar circumstances.

He also owns several compounds in Russia of course (St.Petersburg, 670 m2 + a summer villa in Repino, and an apartment in Moscow), and a relatively big flat in New York (165 m2).

I knew that for example Rozhdestvensky had a private jet, but Gergiev seems to be in a different league.

Article, in Italian, but translatable:
https://www.ilgiornale.it/news/mondo/ecco-l-impero-direttore-d-orchestra-amico-putin-2026667.html?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1650017888

The Palazzo in Venice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palazzo_Barbarigo

[amw]

Wow, that's depressing as all hell. I knew sucking up to terrible governments etcetera paid, but evidently it pays far better than not doing so, even (maybe especially?) in our supposedly idealistic classical music world.

[MusicTurner]

Karajan especially, and likely Bernstein, maybe a few others (Levine, Boulez, Toscanini for example?) also earned nicely, but I haven't seen articles describing equally sumptous conditions for other conductors. Such articles might exist though (obviously Gergiev probably didn't want the info to be published).

Some conductors have probably also simply been much less interested in acquiring a lot of material goods.

[Todd]

Some conductors have probably also simply been much less interested in acquiring a lot of material goods.

What do you base this statement on? 

Also, is there any indication that Gergiev engaged in criminal behavior?  Or is he just guilty of sucking up to a bad person and holding very bad opinions?

As to conductors who earn nice salaries, ten seconds of googling found these numbers for US orchestras from last year.  Throw in guest conducting, and these conductors are doing quite well, if not Gergiev well.  They all earn top 0.1% incomes in the US, which means they rank even higher in other countries.  I suspect major European orchestras pay something similar.

Riccardo Muti at the Chicago Symphony: $3,420,804
Gustavo Dudamel at the Los Angeles Philharmonic: $2,857,103
Michael Tilson Thomas at the San Francisco Symphony: $2,139,720
Andris Nelsons at the Boston Symphony: $1,787,000
Yannick-Nézet-Séguin at the Philadelphia Orchestra: $1,672,167

There is nothing egalitarian or idealistic about the classical music world.

[Brian]

Seems to me that everyone is right. There is nothing egalitarian or idealistic about the economics of classical music; it's as much a glamor business as sports or acting. The article doesn't seem to explain why Gergiev has amassed such a dazzling hoard of wealth. On the other hand, Gergiev's wealth is clearly an order of magnitude greater than that of his colleagues - 100 million Euros of property just in one of the countries where he lives. Personally, I make the assumption that it derives from kissing the behinds of rich, powerful friends.

It must be nice to know that if the world decides that it doesn't like you anymore and wants you to stop doing your job, at least you have a bunch of fabulous mansions in beautiful places. Certainly not true for me 

As far as this -

Some conductors have probably also simply been much less interested in acquiring a lot of material goods.

What do you base this statement on? 

It's a truism; find any group of people and some will be more or less interested in material wealth. I don't know a lot about the personal histories of conductors and their lives, but the pianist Sergio Fiorentino is an example of a top-tier classical artist who didn't care about acquiring wealth or pursuing the kind of career which would achieve such a goal.

[Florestan]

It's a truism; find any group of people and some will be more or less interested in material wealth.

Yes.

[Todd]

It's a truism; find any group of people and some will be more or less interested in material wealth.

Perhaps, but it seems like it would be less common with conductors than soloists.  I can think of several great or extremely fine soloists who clearly didn't or don't like the limelight and consciously took a different path (eg, Sanchez, Block, Attenelle, Kars rather obviously), but conductors necessarily want to be in charge, by the nature of their job.  Less driven conductors would be more likely to end up leading sub-par orchestras and would not really be heard from, but from the outside it would be essentially impossible to know if they shy away from the limelight and do not pursue the trappings of their profession or if they are just mediocre.

[Florestan]

it seems like it would be less common with conductors than soloists.  I can think of several great or extremely fine soloists who clearly didn't or don't like the limelight and consciously took a different path (eg, Sanchez, Block, Attenelle, Kars rather obviously), but conductors necessarily want to be in charge, by the nature of their job.

Indeed. A self-effacing conductor is an oxymoron. 

[MusicTurner]

Seems to me that everyone is right. There is nothing egalitarian or idealistic about the economics of classical music; it's as much a glamor business as sports or acting. The article doesn't seem to explain why Gergiev has amassed such a dazzling hoard of wealth. On the other hand, Gergiev's wealth is clearly an order of magnitude greater than that of his colleagues - 100 million Euros of property just in one of the countries where he lives. Personally, I make the assumption that it derives from kissing the behinds of rich, powerful friends.

It must be nice to know that if the world decides that it doesn't like you anymore and wants you to stop doing your job, at least you have a bunch of fabulous mansions in beautiful places. Certainly not true for me 

(...)

The original, much more detailed Navalny team article tells of a lot of dubious circumstances regarding Gergiev's economy, besides his propaganda function - such as Gergiev illegally using foundation means donated by big companies etc. for personal gains and pleasures, a lack of registering his assets, etc. Also, he apparently has a secret (?), Dutch citizenship, the legality of which in Russia is debated. The previously mentioned summary from Il Giornale only lists some of the stuff.

https://navalny.com/p/6621/ (in Russian, but Google translate has improved a lot in relation to that language).

[Todd]

The original, much more detailed Navalny team article tells of a lot of dubious circumstances regarding Gergiev's economy, besides his propaganda function - such as Gergiev illegally using foundation means donated by big companies etc. for personal gains and pleasures, a lack of registering his assets, etc. Also, he apparently has a secret (?), Dutch citizenship, the legality of which in Russia is debated. The previously mentioned summary from Il Giornale only lists some of the stuff.

https://navalny.com/p/6621/ (in Russian, but Google translate has improved a lot in relation to that language).

The piece you linked to is a hatchet job.  One should always be mindful of sources.