Everyone fires Valery Gergiev

[Florestan]

They may well have if they had lived this long. After all, lots of the Soviet dissident generation came out in support of the annexation of Crimea and now the current war, since many people just get soft-headed in old age and they have spent many years now under the brainwashing effect of Channel 1 and other state-run television. Sofia Gubaidulina fairly recently gave an interview where she parroted the Russian government line on Ukrainian "Neo-Nazis" almost word for word – this is what happens when you are a sheltered 90-year-old living in a house where Russian television is probably playing all day long as a link to your native country and language.

Sometimes you have to be grateful that a composer known for his anti-authoritarian stance like Schnittke died pre-Putin, so he couldn't live long enough to eventually betray his own legacy.

This is true as well. Yet I believe that Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Turgenev, Chekhov, Bulgakov, Pasternak, Grossman, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff or Medtner would have never supported this abomination.

[Florestan]

Holy sh!t. That is a whole nother level. That is well beyond.

Indeed.

[MusicTurner]

More well-known former-USSR composers of the elder generation, that are still alive (?), besides Gubaidulina, would include

- Rodion Shchedrin
- Vyacheslav Artyomov
- Alla Pavlova (lives in New York)
- Tigran Mansurian (Armenian)
- Vladislav Shoot (lives in the UK)
- Vladimir Martyonov
- Dmitri Smirnov (lives in London)
- Elena Firsova (lives in London)
- Vladimir Tarnapolsky
- Alexander Raskatov
- Alexander Knaifel (Uzbek)

I'm mostly not up to date about their current whereabouts. A lot of them have been pretty avant-garde. I checked Artyomov, but found no political statements.

(Slonimsky, Ovchinnikov, Alexander Vustin and Kapustin died not so long ago).

[staxomega]

I don't think anyone would be willing to defend Boris Berezovsky.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-pianist-calls-for-power-to-be-cut-to-kyiv/ar-AAV7IXs?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

Nothing to say about that other than a big wow. Yet another musician I don't find all that interesting outside of the Beethoven Piano Concerti.

[MusicTurner]

Nothing to say about that other than a big wow. Yet another musician I don't find all that interesting outside of the Beethoven Piano Concerti.

His Liszt concertos etc. and his Balakirev/Mussorgsky/Medtner etc., both on Teldec, were good.

Didn't know he had those attitudes. I know Gavrilov has been in the opposite camp for many years.

[Que]

This is true as well. Yet I believe that Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Turgenev, Chekhov, Bulgakov, Pasternak, Grossman, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff or Medtner would have never supported this abomination.

Vladimir Horowitz only drank Polish made Vodka!

[Florestan]

Vladimir Horowitz only drank Polish made Vodka!

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

This is true as well. Yet I believe that Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Turgenev, Chekhov, Bulgakov, Pasternak, Grossman, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff or Medtner would have never supported this abomination.

The great thing about hypothetical history is that it can turn out however you want. We have no idea how the above-mentioned individuals would have reacted to the current situation. My personal opinion is that they would have found the present state of the former Russian Empire/USSR totally alien and incomprehensible. But who knows?

I can't think of one single great Russian writer, thinker or composer of the past who would have supported Putin's war on Ukraine save possibly Solzhenitsyn.

Really? Based on what I've read, Solzhenitsyn believed two things: 1) Ukraine and Belarus would be better off in some sort of union with Russia, and 2) however, if the Ukrainians decided to be independent, that decision should be respected. At least, that's what he said in his c. 1990 treatise How to Rebuild Russia.

[Florestan]

Really? Based on what I've read, Solzhenitsyn believed two things: 1) Ukraine and Belarus would be better off in some sort of union with Russia, and 2) however, if the Ukrainians decided to be independent, that decision should be respected. At least, that's what he said in his c. 1990 treatise How to Rebuild Russia.

It's from Wikipedia so it might not be entirely accurate:

According to William Harrison, Solzhenitsyn was an "arch-reactionary", who argued that the Soviet State "suppressed" traditional Russian and Ukrainian culture, called for the creation of a united Slavic state encompassing Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus, and who was a fierce opponent of Ukrainian independence. It is well documented that his negative views on Ukrainian independence became more radical over the years.[86]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleksandr_Solzhenitsyn#Views_on_history_and_politics

[The new erato]

If we want a Soviet hero, go for Sakharov. Solzhenitsyn was a piece of s..t.

[MusicTurner]

I don't think anyone would be willing to defend Boris Berezovsky.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/russian-pianist-calls-for-power-to-be-cut-to-kyiv/ar-AAV7IXs?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

He was sacked by his agent following those remarks on Russian TV:
https://www.classical-music.com/news/pianist-boris-berezovsky-dropped-by-agent-following-comments-on-ukraine-conflict/ (has a summary etc. of his remarks).

He also gave this Lebanese TV interview in French, (very poor sound quality) - but basically, his politely expressed attitude there is (I'm quoting him literally): "art changes nothing, a few artist are able to get engaged in what they believe in, but that's not for me; let's enjoy the good things in life  - the arts, eating and sports - and not think too much about it, in 3 years this will be a thing of the past, let the military sector deal with this crisis; there has always been wars, the opinions about it are 50-50; the West put too much pressure on Russia for many years; Putin warned against it; and all those wars by the US have cost destruction and civilian lives. So the question of civilians isn't valid from my point of view. But in the future, people will probably develop more consciousness and solve the problems peacefully".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SSfMs0Z7cU

I'm not sure I get the headline, but it sounds rather ironical: his playing may be 'vehement', but the interview shows total acceptance of Putin's narrative. Or maybe it's meant to tell about a general Russian vehemence.

[prémont]

His Liszt concertos etc. and his Balakirev/Mussorgsky/Medtner etc., both on Teldec, were good.

His (Boris Berezovsky's) Ludus Tonalis isn't that bad either. But now I don't know if I want to listen to it again.

[Karl Henning]

Opinion: Russian athletes and artists have moral obligations, too

[T. D.]

Opinion: Russian athletes and artists have moral obligations, too

There's been interesting debate in the chess world on this point:
https://www.chess.com/news/view/dvorkovich-in-tight-spot-as-fide-president

I believe sportswashing is real and has been shamelessly cultivated / rewarded by organizations like the IOC, FIFA, FIA, UCI, FIDE, ... over the years.

Not so sure about "culturewashing", if only because sports are so much more lucrative and popular. 

[Todd]

Antonio Pappano, Simon Rattle, Barbara Hannigan & Fabio Luisi Among Signatories Petitioning Against the Canceling of Russian Artists

[Florestan]

Antonio Pappano, Simon Rattle, Barbara Hannigan & Fabio Luisi Among Signatories Petitioning Against the Canceling of Russian Artists

not all Russians and Belarusians, and certainly not all cultural figures of these two nations, support this terrible invasion.

Of course they don't. Has anyone claimed they did?

Therefore, we find it unjust to condemn Russians or Belarusians for the actions of the dictator and his supporters without any direct evidence of their collusion.

AFAIK, the condemnation was nominally directed against Gergiev, Netrebko and Matsuev, who were already known as having publicly avowed ties to Putin. Valentina Lisitsa is in a limbo. But I don't remember any nominal condemnation of any other living Russian musician.

What I do remember is the BBC Wales Orchestra cancelling a Tchaikovsky concert and a certain Italian university cancelling --- better said, trying unsuccesfully to cancel --- lectures on Dostoevsky. Both of which are idiotic in the extreme.

Overall, though, I'd say that the West is much more sympathetic to, and appreciative of, Russian culture than Russia is to, and of, Western culture.

[Mirror Image]

Of course they don't. Has anyone claimed they did?

AFAIK, the condemnation was nominally directed against Gergiev, Netrebko and Matsuev, who were already known as having publicly avowed ties to Putin. Valentina Lisitsa is in a limbo. But I don't remember any nominal condemnation of any other living Russian musician.

What I do remember is the BBC Wales Orchestra cancelling a Tchaikovsky concert and a certain Italian university cancelling --- better said, trying unsuccesfully to cancel --- lectures on Dostoevsky. Both of which are idiotic in the extreme.

Overall, though, I'd say that the West is much more sympathetic to, and appreciative of, Russian culture than Russia is to, and of, Western culture.

As I said before, it's the people in power that are the problem not the innocent people that live in the country. Canceling a concert that features music from Tchaikovsky or Prokofiev is beyond moronic and I don't understand how these composers have anything to do with Putin's madness.

[Florestan]

As I said before, it's the people in power that are the problem not the innocent people that live in the country. Canceling a concert that features music from Tchaikovsky or Prokofiev is beyond moronic and I don't understand how these composers have anything to do with Putin's madness.

Yes.

So much so as the 1812 Overture depicts precisely the repelling of a megalomanic dictator's invasion by both the army and the people of the country he invaded.

Yet I still stand by what I said: nowadays the West rejects Russian culture much, much, much less than Russia rejects Western culture.

[DavidW]

As I said before, it's the people in power that are the problem not the innocent people that live in the country. Canceling a concert that features music from Tchaikovsky or Prokofiev is beyond moronic and I don't understand how these composers have anything to do with Putin's madness.

I agree with you and Florestan on the matter.  It is unfortunate that civilians in Russia suffer from the sanctions as well as civilians losing their lives and homes.  Such is war.

[TheGSMoeller]

Yes.

So much so as the 1812 Overture depicts precisely the repelling of a megalomanic dictator's invasion by both the army and the people of the country he invaded.

Over the past month or so I've seen the Nashville Symphony perform Shostakovich's 5th and 1812 Overture, both times the music director, Giancarlo Guerrero, spoke to the audience and explained why after discussions they decided to not replace these with non-Russian composer works. Guerrero mentioned a bit of history for each work but wanted to put more focus on the music rather than a meaning.